All Forums > WhatIfSports > WhatIfSports > Boasters, Whiners, Cons, Libs (CLOSED)
2/12/2008 10:55 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By ooooohdoggie on 2/12/2008

No copy and paste on this subject. Hopefully this will be helpful to post my question in this thread.

Are there two Americas?

That is what surprises me concerning sincere individuals who want the best for others?
When I watched coverage of the Democratic Debate in South Carolina I was surprised how certain people seemed that the fix is in against so many people.
Similar talk has been voiced regarding how Hurricane Katrina was handled in New Orleans.
The conservative argument would be that Louisiana and New Orleans government was ineffective and/or corrupt.
I hope people in public service sincerely want to do things right.
Do women really get paid less for exactly the same job and same hours?
If this does happen, how do employers get away with it?


There are probably more than 2 Americas as far as beliefs but there is a great divide. Many say abortion is a big part of the litmus test where beliefs fall in line.
2/12/2008 11:10 AM
2/12/2008 12:00 PM
Ashel:

We already have socialism (Social Security is the best example), so it's only a question of how much socialism works without sapping individualism.

The controlling effects that both you and I fear can come from either the right (fascism) or the (communism).

In our recent history the pendulum has swung too far to the right, in my humble opinion.

Beyond boycotts (which are rarely organized well enough to succeed), the only control we have on corporate excess is government regulation. We need to put back some of the regulation that the Reagan-Bush presidencies did away with, especially reasonable protections for our environment.

I'm done here. Best of luck in your continuing WIS endeavors, and keeping the faith...
2/12/2008 12:08 PM
It's ridiculous to put the entire onus for the world's environmental problems on AMERICAN businesses. There are already far too many government labor and environmental regulations that hinder US-based companies ability to compete on a global scale, which is why so many businesses look overseas for less expensive, equally competent labor forces.
So, with jobs leaving the country due to the liberal agenda of labor protection and environmental extremism, the liberals then trumpet extended unemployment benefits and social programs like Welfare and universal health care. Expand the government (cradle to grave security) and spend more money on those that don't contribute to the economy. It's a cycle of dependency on the government that will never end.
2/12/2008 12:21 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By crazystengel on 2/12/2008Yes, I'd also like to see the US adopt the labor laws and environmental regulations of places like Cambodia and China, in order to keep those poor companies from having to leave the country just to make an honest buck
Either that or quit complaining about the lack of jobs. Can't have it both ways.

Companies exist to make money for their shareholders. If they can make more money by moving operations to more business-friendly countries, they will. Don't blame the companies for leaving, blame the Congress for making it less profitable for them to stay.
2/12/2008 12:26 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By doubletruck on 2/12/2008Ashel:

We already have socialism (Social Security is the best example), so it's only a question of how much socialism works without sapping individualism.

The controlling effects that both you and I fear can come from either the right (fascism) or the (communism).

In our recent history the pendulum has swung too far to the right, in my humble opinion.

Beyond boycotts (which are rarely organized well enough to succeed), the only control we have on corporate excess is government regulation. We need to put back some of the regulation that the Reagan-Bush presidencies did away with, especially reasonable protections for our environment.

I'm done here. Best of luck in your continuing WIS endeavors, and keeping the faith..
There are programs that are socialistic in nature but are failing. Social security is a failure. It is government aid that isn't enough to retire on but dangles that carrot like it's needed to retire on. We are responsible for our own retirement. People need to send a message to the government we want less from them and more for ourselves.
2/12/2008 12:32 PM
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2/12/2008 12:40 PM
Social Security = Government sponsored Ponzi scheme
I'd be perfectly happy if they just gave me 80% of my money back.
2/12/2008 1:17 PM
American Politics; God, faith, and the Bible; Libs and Cons from Commies to Fascists (Fascism is when the Gov't controls the means of production, but we here, now, have it that the private sector controllers of the means of production controls the Gov't...which isn't the opposite of Fascism, just a new category).

Lot's of earnest, seemingly intractible viewpoints.

We all live here together (meaning, you live here with me!). Therefore, I feel comfortable in asking, where have you culled your beliefs?

My B.A. is in Economics and the law school I went to was Top-35 at the time, I was raised a Catholic (Dad was the Sacristan and Mom was the head of the Ladies' Alter Society, I was a Knight Commander in the Knights of the Alter). I consider myself an American (a way disenchanted American).

Many of the arguments (not just in this post) heard in the land these days are just such obvious regurgitations of what, in the past, have been referred to as "the company-line" points of view. What has happened to critical thinking? Where has the ability to assess by the case-by-case gone? Why do so many people tend to group anything into one of two groups (Christian or non; Dem or Rep; Lib or Con etc)?

Where are you getting your information? If it is being dispersed to you, in toto, via any media format, doubt it my friend. Doubt it strongly. Do start thinking for yourself, if something interests you, but if you start expounding on the subject almost verbatim, try to catch yourself...and think some more on the topic. Because you very probably have been herded. There are more than the two opposing points of view. The best Democracy has to offer, the highest social satisfaction and economic utility is derived from the distillation of many inputs, not just two. Please stop being herded and for my, and others, sake stop being default proponents of the herders insidious"only two of everything" line of reasoning.

That having been said, I still can't beat griz. Was just thinking about it the other day and realized I may have an additional 3 championships if but for his mastery...but that's ok there is Ferdie Schupp at some point in his future.
2/12/2008 1:24 PM
Well said, firehose!

I shall not be herded by a sheepherder!
2/12/2008 1:28 PM
in a pinch, on a cold and rainy night, when the sheepherder is away...

no, no I'm sure I wouldn't....no, I wouldn't....I think
2/12/2008 1:52 PM
"tastes just like ladyfingers..."


Anyone read King?
2/12/2008 4:34 PM
I came across this today, forwarded from an unknown source via e-mail.


To be a Republican you need to believe that...

1. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.

2. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's Daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him, and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.

3. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is Communist, but trade with China and Viet Nam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

4. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.

5. A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multinational drug corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

6. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches, while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.

7. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

8. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our longtime allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

9. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy, but providing health care to all Americans is socialism. HMO's and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.

10. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.

11. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense, but a president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.

12. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

13. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.

14. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.

15. Supporting "Executive Privilege" for every Republican ever born, who will be born or who might be born (in perpetuity.)

16. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960's is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80's is irrelevant.

17. Support hunters who shoot their friends and blame them for wearing orange vests similar to those worn by the quail.

Anyone have such a list for Democrats, Libertarians or Greenies?
2/12/2008 4:47 PM
We'd make a list, but we have jobs.
2/12/2008 5:27 PM
Quote: Originally posted by doubletruck on 2/12/2008I came across this today, forwarded from an unknown source via e-mail.


To be a Republican you need to believe that...

1. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.

I don't hate Hilary. I'd hate to vote for her. By the way I saw a Grad student wearing a T-shirt that read "Kill Bush" Yup those superior intellectuals

2. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's Daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him, and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.

I think the whole thing is a confusing mess. We can't bring the middle east peace only a pause in hostility. I support our troops and hope they all make it back safely.

3. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is Communist, but trade with China and Viet Nam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

Clinton sold Nuclear reactors to North Korea. Cuba is to close to our doorstep. Castro is a brutal dictator. It's too close to home.

4. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.

The UN is a joke. They couldn't organize a sock drawer. They work against us but take our money.

5. A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multinational drug corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

Abortion is wrong(murder) throwing the company spin here is a weak argument. Corporations need some regulation but we needs specifics not generalities.

6. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches, while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.

Veterans could use more money no doubt but we treat our military better than any country.

7. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

It's more responsible to drill the message home that abstinence is key. This why Christian values are important. The Bible talks about purity and waiting for marriage. It be nice send that message than giving a 9 yr old a condom.

8. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our longtime allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

???? More liberal crap. We are keeping our allies from getting Muslim extremists in their backyard.

9. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy, but providing health care to all Americans is socialism. HMO's and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.

There should be a market for health care. Free from Govt control. Name one Government social service that actually works correctly.

10. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.

Global warming according to some reputable scientists and meteorologists is the single biggest scam in the history of mankind. Creationism can not be dis proven but Darwinism can be.

11. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense, but a president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.

The CIA ran from intelligence they gathered and provided it to the President. Saddam was boasting he had the weapons.Surprisingly no one thanks Bush for getting rid of a murdering dictator that killed his own people and buried them in a large ditches. A kid goes missing and we sound the Amber alert. Guy kills thousands of his own people we ignore it.

12. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

Gay marriage would unravel the value from a stable society. It is PROVEN that a stable family that includes a father and mother is a better model for society and children. Each sex possesses traits that benefit the child as parent. Not to mention Biblically it's all wrong.

13. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.

Unfair comparison. Bush cleaned up his act. The Clinton's still are dirty.

14. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.

I guess they mean Rush Limbaugh. I don't have all the facts on this one. Did he clean up? I mean Robert Downey Jr. is in Iron Man. I guess not only the conservatives are forgiven.

15. Supporting "Executive Privilege" for every Republican ever born, who will be born or who might be born (in perpetuity.)

?

16. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960's is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80's is irrelevant.

Stupid..hardly relevant

17. Support hunters who shoot their friends and blame them for wearing orange vests similar to those worn by the quail.

People get hurt hunting. Especially the animals.Trying taking down a moose with a buck knife.

Anyone have such a list for Democrats, Libertarians or Greenies?
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