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I rarely trade in OL, but in theory, I agree. I've only vetoed a couple of trades across all the leagues I've been in the past several years. It has to be pretty severe for me to veto - the kind of thing that makes you suspect there might be some cheating going on.
4/14/2015 9:46 AM
"I am freeing up the $200k by getting rid of the AAA player in a trade (because I cannot drop the AAA player to the WW--which I wish you could do)"

Yes you can.  On the WW page there is a click you can make that drops a player to the WW without claiming anyone.  This is limited in an OL if you do not have enough PAs or IPs, though.


I will often veto a AAA-for-Scrub trade simply because of the value, especially if I do not know the owners involved, so as to protect newbies from getting ripped off or to prevent collusion.  Who am I to know?  Well, no one; however, asking around isn't going to yield a valid result as nobody will admit to unseemly behavior.  So I have to follow my gut.  Also, I will look closely at AAA trades that are P for B as so many teams try the low-IP draft hoping to acquire a third (or even fourth) AAA P.


My two cents.

4/14/2015 12:35 PM
He means you can't drop a SIM-assigned AAA player.
4/14/2015 12:45 PM
My preference would be that in OL trades should not be allowed at all. 

Since they are, however, I veto all trades of AAA for non-AAA.  Sorry if that offends you.  You get $80M in an OL to spend on your roster, plus 6/2 AAA.  Not $81.6M, which is what you could theoretically end up with if you traded all of your AAA players for $200K scubs and then dropped them.  In leagues as competitive as OL's that is a significant advantage.  Not to mention that the guy you are trading with just significantly improved his roster and could end up with 12/4 AAA players, again a significant advantage.

I could care less if both owners agree to the trade.  Either of those outcomes skew the competitiveness of the league.  I will continue to veto those trades.

4/14/2015 12:50 PM
Posted by contrarian23 on 4/14/2015 12:45:00 PM (view original):
He means you can't drop a SIM-assigned AAA player.
Oh, got it.  Thought he meant you can't drop from AAA.  On a subsequent reading, I see my error.  Mea Culpa.
4/14/2015 1:04 PM
As one that experiments in OLs quite often, it's too bad owners simply veto as you do Contrarian. At least you are honest about it in that you veto these trades because it may affect your own team to make the playoffs. I assume that's what you mean by "skewing the competitiveness of the league." Because really...the competitiveness of the league is never truly fair. You have some owners, such as yourself who can put together a playoff team at will, where some players don't know how. But again...a player like $245k WIlson Delgado can be a more valuable player than most AAA players.

Also as one who experiments in OLs, sometimes I'll want to trade for that extra AAA pitcher to give me innings. Or maybe trade one away because I've drafted a solid staff and do not need the AAA. I draft this way because I also feel there may be another owner who has drafted in say the opposite way that I may trade with at some point during the season. Because trading is part of the league, a few vetoers like yourself can affect my roster.

I think the veto was put in place to thwart cheaters. People who may have more than one username and trade to his own team Or to prevent large amounts of cash to be swapped.

That's why a limit on the cash that can be swapped would be a good change to the game. Or...as you suggest, not allow trades. Perhaps OLs should be a flat salary cap with no AAA.

I find it very frustrating that guys basically veto to protect their own team's competitiveness. If you drafted a good team, any trade in an OL will be relatively minor.

What you get for AAA is also luck of the draw. Vetoing a trade where someone is upgrading their AAA player by swapping with a scrub in a way is just evening things out for that team. I don't like the idea of picking your own AAA in an OL...that's what theme leagues are for.

I like the OL format quite a lot. But perhaps I'll start playing more in themes with low caps. I'm pretty much done with the high cap leagues. The draft is just way too easy and it gets to be mostly luck at that level.

I appreciate the discussion. Thanks.
4/14/2015 9:40 PM
Dropping AAA from OLs will solve a lot of problems, I expect.
4/14/2015 11:42 PM
I love the roster flexibility AAA gives. I would hate for them to be dropped. As for removing trading as an option and being able to drop you're rookie?. I'd be fine with that.
4/15/2015 1:53 AM
I find no AAA and no WW leagues in an Open League type format boring.
4/15/2015 1:54 AM
cwillis802, you started out by criticizing "ignorant" owners that veto, found that at least one owner that does veto in OLs is contrarian23 whom everyone here respects greatly and could hardly be said to be "ignorant". You then turned his own words around to make preventing the skewing of competitiveness in the league become vetoing to protect his own team's competitiveness which is not only not what he said but is the exact opposite - one is concern for the general good of the league, and the other is self-interest in the narrowest sense, however understandable as a factor in a competitive environment like a league. 

Many owners do as pinotfan, another here who is widely respected and cannot be remotely accused of ignorance, and veto to provide a margin of protection for newbies who do not know how AAA works, what the relative values are etc. so that despite the obvious reality that new owners will rarely have the best teams, the playing field on which they are competing is relatively level, which is a good in the interests of all. 


4/15/2015 3:22 AM
What's wrong with vetoing trades as a way to counter all the low PA/IP cookie team  that dominates the OLs?


4/15/2015 8:33 AM
AAA position players are worth 1.5 - 2.6 mil.  Your example Delgado is worth 245k.  Not an even trade.  Sure you have your own strategy, but it does affect other teams, however minor. 

 If you don't want AAA players then write Admin and ask them to make it where you can drop them through the season.  Might be an cool idea to find cheap AAA players on the WW and be able to pick them up too.

 Besides, if you happen to be in a league with enough owners that actually pay attention to a trade to veto it, you have some bad luck.  I haven't seen a trade get enough vetoes to get stopped in a while. 

Just my 2 cents.  I also think AAA position player for AAA pitcher trades aren't fair either.


4/15/2015 12:08 PM
Italy I respect contrarian greatly. I never called him ignorant. He gave a reason why he vetoes. I just don't agree with it. Many people I've asked do not provide a reason other tha. They veto every trade they see involving a AAA player for a non AAA player. Two adults agreed to the trade and they have determined that those two adults don't know what's best for their own team. Do they check out the rosters of these teams before they veto? Do they look at the standings? No.

One point to contrarians post. Yes every team technically begins with $80 mil and 6/2 RANDOM AAA. But many experienced players draft $200k scrubs that are dropped for cash and then they use the AAA for their bench--or if they are lucky they get a good AAA player that contributes more regularly...that is luck. So if team A wasn't so lucky and team B offers a good AAA player for a $200k scrub because B needs cash and doesn't need the AAA player how does that skew the competitiveness of the league?? Not all teams will draft $200k scrubs to drop. Point is guys use different strategies. An extra AAA player there or $310k in money there is part of the strategy going into the league. You can spin a veto any way you want but it comes down if you really think of the motivation behind the act that the vetoing teams are 1) feel they are a better JUDGE of trades tha. The two adults who agreed on the trade (even tho they most liky failed to examine the rosters or standings) and 2) are doing so REALLY to protect their own teams interests. Perhaps some may say or think that they are preserving the sanctity of the league, but that sanctity doesn't really exist when there are so many different strategies. Some guys draft scrubs to dri for money, some don't. Some get lucky with good AAA, some don't. Some use 3-4 of their AAA, some use absolutely mon of them. Contrarian is super debater...he enjoys it and hence his name sake...and I like and respect the guy. But I ain't buying what he's selling. Sorry.

Italy I resent what you wrote. I enjoy your articles you post. I respect you and I like you. But to twist what I said trying to make me appear disrespectful to Pinot or to Contrarian was wrong and misguided on your part.
4/19/2015 7:00 AM
Sorry about some of the typos--autocorrect or whatever from my iPhone.
4/19/2015 7:03 AM
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