Mike Trout Topic

Posted by burnsy483 on 2/27/2015 7:52:00 AM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 2/27/2015 6:03:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/27/2015 5:36:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/26/2015 11:11:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/26/2015 9:34:00 PM (view original):
If I haven't made an argument (according to you), then what am I not grasping (according to you)?
Well, to start, Trout's goal to strike out less is not contrary to the fact that an out is an out. He's trying to make less outs, not other types of outs.

Tell me you understand that.

I understand that his intent is to make less outs.  My disagreement is about "an out is an out".  All outs are not the same.
And this is really what it all boils down to.
Correct. Some outs move runners along, and are better than strikeouts. Other outs are twice as bad as strikeouts. And that's where it evens out.

Man on 2nd and no outs, when the batter strikes out, I do get frustrated, because that was the worse case scenario (putting aside the line-out DP up the middle). That said, if you change the mindset of said batter so much that he isn't trying to drive the ball too much and is simply ensuring contact, he likely becomes a worse hitter.
You think Trout wants to strike out less to become a worse hitter?
2/27/2015 8:48 AM

No, he wants to turn those whiffs into hits.   Which, I guess, is unique to Trout.   No other hitter wants to do that. 

2/27/2015 8:54 AM
Posted by The Taint on 2/27/2015 8:48:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/27/2015 7:52:00 AM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 2/27/2015 6:03:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/27/2015 5:36:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/26/2015 11:11:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/26/2015 9:34:00 PM (view original):
If I haven't made an argument (according to you), then what am I not grasping (according to you)?
Well, to start, Trout's goal to strike out less is not contrary to the fact that an out is an out. He's trying to make less outs, not other types of outs.

Tell me you understand that.

I understand that his intent is to make less outs.  My disagreement is about "an out is an out".  All outs are not the same.
And this is really what it all boils down to.
Correct. Some outs move runners along, and are better than strikeouts. Other outs are twice as bad as strikeouts. And that's where it evens out.

Man on 2nd and no outs, when the batter strikes out, I do get frustrated, because that was the worse case scenario (putting aside the line-out DP up the middle). That said, if you change the mindset of said batter so much that he isn't trying to drive the ball too much and is simply ensuring contact, he likely becomes a worse hitter.
You think Trout wants to strike out less to become a worse hitter?
Obviously not but that possibility exists. Changing your approach in order to make more contact is likely to impact all of your plate appearances.
2/27/2015 9:12 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/27/2015 8:54:00 AM (view original):

No, he wants to turn those whiffs into hits.   Which, I guess, is unique to Trout.   No other hitter wants to do that. 

He wants to turn them into hits which is why, "an out is an out," doesn't apply here.
2/27/2015 9:13 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 2/27/2015 6:32:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/26/2015 4:22:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/26/2015 4:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/26/2015 4:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2015 3:54:00 PM (view original):
Does wanting to strike out less and convert those AB into hits only apply to Trout?

Nope and it also doesn't apply to, "an out is an out."

No one has ever argued that strikeouts are the same as balls in play or that players shouldn't try to get hits. Just that, once you're out, how you made that out doesn't matter.
And that's where your basic ignorance about baseball displays itself for all the world to see.

Is a ground out that advances a runner from second to third the same as a strikeout?

Is a fly out that scores a runner from third the same as a strikeout?

For God's sake, even a ground ball force-out that "replaces" a slow runner at first with a faster runner at first is a marginal improvement, and is better than a strikeout.
Why do National League pitchers bunt when there's runners on base and less than two outs?  Why don't their managers just have them swing away with the high likelihood that they'll whiff?  After all, all outs are the same, correct?
BL never answered this.
You raise an interesting point. If strikeouts are so bad, maybe Trout should sac bunt any time he comes up with runners on base. Then he'll have moved the runners over and avoided the K.
2/27/2015 9:15 AM
Way to avoid the question.

Why do pitchers bunt instead of swinging away with less than two outs and runners on base?
2/27/2015 9:35 AM
Because their managers don't know jack **** about baseball.
2/27/2015 9:36 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/27/2015 9:12:00 AM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 2/27/2015 8:48:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/27/2015 7:52:00 AM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 2/27/2015 6:03:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/27/2015 5:36:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/26/2015 11:11:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/26/2015 9:34:00 PM (view original):
If I haven't made an argument (according to you), then what am I not grasping (according to you)?
Well, to start, Trout's goal to strike out less is not contrary to the fact that an out is an out. He's trying to make less outs, not other types of outs.

Tell me you understand that.

I understand that his intent is to make less outs.  My disagreement is about "an out is an out".  All outs are not the same.
And this is really what it all boils down to.
Correct. Some outs move runners along, and are better than strikeouts. Other outs are twice as bad as strikeouts. And that's where it evens out.

Man on 2nd and no outs, when the batter strikes out, I do get frustrated, because that was the worse case scenario (putting aside the line-out DP up the middle). That said, if you change the mindset of said batter so much that he isn't trying to drive the ball too much and is simply ensuring contact, he likely becomes a worse hitter.
You think Trout wants to strike out less to become a worse hitter?
Obviously not but that possibility exists. Changing your approach in order to make more contact is likely to impact all of your plate appearances.
Working on his batting eye, learning to lay off non strikes is likely to improve his stat lines
2/27/2015 9:41 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/27/2015 8:47:00 AM (view original):
No, it's a retarded question to ask.

One guy hits 4 homers, another hits 15.   Do you automatically take 15 homer guy?

Stop being retarded on Friday.
With no other info, I'd take the 15 homer guy.  It might turn out that I'm wrong, but if maybe 65% of the time, I'm right, it's the right decision.

One guy strikes out 75 times in 600 atbats, the other strikes out 125 times. I'm assuming it's not obvious to you who you take. How about tec and Taint?

2/27/2015 9:57 AM (edited)
Posted by tecwrg on 2/27/2015 9:35:00 AM (view original):
Way to avoid the question.

Why do pitchers bunt instead of swinging away with less than two outs and runners on base?
The pitcher is usually a very poor hitter, and is very likely to get out. There's also a better chance than with most players that if they make contact, they hit into a double play, which is catastrophic. There have been times with a pitcher up in certain situations, probably like bases loaded and none out, where I've thought "don't swing" because the pitcher was such a poor hitter.
2/27/2015 9:57 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/27/2015 9:57:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/27/2015 8:47:00 AM (view original):
No, it's a retarded question to ask.

One guy hits 4 homers, another hits 15.   Do you automatically take 15 homer guy?

Stop being retarded on Friday.
With no other info, I'd take the 15 homer guy.  It might turn out that I'm wrong, but if maybe 65% of the time, I'm right, it's the right decision.

One guy strikes out 75 times in 600 atbats, the other strikes out 125 times. I'm assuming it's not obvious to you who you take. How about tec and Taint?

Oh, now you're giving us more info.    600 AB?

My hypothetical guys had 8 and 1200, respectively.    You still taking that 15 homer guy?
2/27/2015 10:16 AM
I gave you that info in my original question. Stop being retarded on Friday.
2/27/2015 10:20 AM
FWIW, some stats about Trout's K's last year.

78 strikeouts came with 0-1 outs, and nobody on base.
60 strikeouts came with 2 outs.
30 strikeouts came with a man on 1st with less than 2 outs. (I'd argue that I'd prefer a K to out(s) in play, if forced to choose)

So out of 184 strikeouts, there are 168 where the strikeout came in a situation where it wasn't "better" to have an out that was in play. This is where you get "strikeouts really don't matter too much."

If you change Trout's approach to avoid strikeouts, you might make him a worse player. He DOES want to make some the strikeouts into hits, which is nice, if it doesn't effect the rest of his game negatively.

EDIT: 2 of the 30 strikeouts with a man on 1st and less than 2 outs also had a man on 3rd.  So 166 out of 184, rather than 168 out of 184. 
2/27/2015 10:41 AM (edited)
Posted by tecwrg on 2/27/2015 9:35:00 AM (view original):
Way to avoid the question.

Why do pitchers bunt instead of swinging away with less than two outs and runners on base?
What burns said. The pitcher bunts for the same reason that Trout doesn't: Possible upside of the at bat.
2/27/2015 10:40 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/27/2015 10:40:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/27/2015 9:35:00 AM (view original):
Way to avoid the question.

Why do pitchers bunt instead of swinging away with less than two outs and runners on base?
What burns said. The pitcher bunts for the same reason that Trout doesn't: Possible upside of the at bat.
But all outs are equal, aren't they?  How can there be "possible upside"?
2/27/2015 10:46 AM
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