Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 3:10:00 PM (view original):
They do and those factors will be irrelevant in 25 years.   Of course, the same could be said of Pete Rose 25 years ago. 

I do think a distinction will be made between 3-4.    Statnerds love to make distinctions.   That's why we have ERA+ and WAR and whatever else is considered an "advanced metric".    And, more than any other sport, baseball "people" love to put players in groups. 

Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 3:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 3:10:00 PM (view original):
They do and those factors will be irrelevant in 25 years.   Of course, the same could be said of Pete Rose 25 years ago. 

I do think a distinction will be made between 3-4.    Statnerds love to make distinctions.   That's why we have ERA+ and WAR and whatever else is considered an "advanced metric".    And, more than any other sport, baseball "people" love to put players in groups. 

If ARod winds up on the banned list, I'll concede that that factor will still be relevant 25 years from now if it's still true.  I think if Rose ever becomes eligible, he goes in pretty quickly at this point, but that's at the discretion of the MLB commissioner, not the people voting for the HoF.

Couple of things then I'm done with this discussion(#2 will explain why):

1.  I'll admit that there was a lot more anti-Rose folks running around in the 90s.    I imagine he'd cakewalk into the HOF if he became eligible.    Using that as a guideline, when A-Rod's career is over and we're 25 years removed from the moment, anti-ARod might be less evident too.

2.  That said, I don't sit around discussing HOF credentials with my baseball fan friends every time we talk baseball so maybe there is more anti-Pete than I know.  However, if ANYTHING is discussed on this board, it ALWAYS becomes HOF-talk.    Had to go back to find out where it turned here.   Seems tec responded to a BL post about HOF hats.   Shockingly, it was BL who turned "Should the Yanks fight A-Rod's bonuses, cut him or just let him play?" into "HOF, *************!!!"


Jeez.

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 4:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 3:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 3:10:00 PM (view original):
They do and those factors will be irrelevant in 25 years.   Of course, the same could be said of Pete Rose 25 years ago. 

I do think a distinction will be made between 3-4.    Statnerds love to make distinctions.   That's why we have ERA+ and WAR and whatever else is considered an "advanced metric".    And, more than any other sport, baseball "people" love to put players in groups. 

If ARod winds up on the banned list, I'll concede that that factor will still be relevant 25 years from now if it's still true.  I think if Rose ever becomes eligible, he goes in pretty quickly at this point, but that's at the discretion of the MLB commissioner, not the people voting for the HoF.

Rose is the all-time hits leader.
A-Rod is the all-time ?

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/29/2015 2:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 1/29/2015 2:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/29/2015 10:53:00 AM (view original):
If I were a voter, I'd look at the roiders in this way - anything before the "roid rules" were put into effect, is fine. It's a period of time where we were accepting of roiders, so it's hypocritical to hurt them now.  But AFTER the fact? Go screw, you're not in.

Just because specific roid rules were put in doesn't mean they weren't against the rules of baseball before hand.

Steroids were generally accepted before then. It's a rule of "Yea, you're not supposed to do that, but nobody cares. Everyone knows it's happening." People knew this guy was roiding and nobody cared. Look how happy everyone is for him:

www.youtube.com/watch

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 7:32:00 PM (view original):
Dinner at BL's:

BL:  Hey, honey, I'm home.
BL wife:  I'm in the kitchen.
BL:  What's for dinner?
BLW:   I'm making some fish and.....
BL:  Goddammit!   I don't care what you say.  Kenny Lofton deserves serious HOF consideration!!!!!!
BLW:  I'm not too sure what you're....anyway, want cole slaw with the fish?
BL:   ************!!!  Raines is like 7th or 8th at his position in WAR.  I have no idea why he's not in the HOF!!!!!
BLW:  Uh, OK.   Would you mind grabbing a bottle white wi......
BL:  Unfuckingbelieveable!!!!   Edgar Martinez is the best DH of all-time.   Definitely should be in the HOF!!!!!!

Posted by stinenavy on 1/29/2015 6:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/29/2015 2:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 1/29/2015 2:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/29/2015 10:53:00 AM (view original):
If I were a voter, I'd look at the roiders in this way - anything before the "roid rules" were put into effect, is fine. It's a period of time where we were accepting of roiders, so it's hypocritical to hurt them now.  But AFTER the fact? Go screw, you're not in.

Just because specific roid rules were put in doesn't mean they weren't against the rules of baseball before hand.

Steroids were generally accepted before then. It's a rule of "Yea, you're not supposed to do that, but nobody cares. Everyone knows it's happening." People knew this guy was roiding and nobody cared. Look how happy everyone is for him:

www.youtube.com/watch

Were you around in 1998? Because that's some incredible alternate history there.

To say that it was widespread in 1998, that everyone knew that McGwire was using steroids is false.

Posted by stinenavy on 1/29/2015 8:01:00 PM (view original):
False. Here's Thomas Boswell on McGwire breaking the record: 

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/baseball/longterm/chase/articles/mac0907.htm


Here's a takedown of Boswell:

ethicsalarms.com/2010/09/30/tom-boswells-outrageous-ethical-breach/