Posted by burnsy483 on 1/29/2015 2:27:00 PM (view original):

Now, once we went through this whole mess with Mitchell and the new drug laws in MLB, it should be understood that this isn't anywhere close to acceptable anymore. So once you use again? No sympathy. 

Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 2:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 2:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 1:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 1:45:00 PM (view original):
I think we should ask Pete Rose.

Well, unless A-Rod finds a way to land himself on the permanently ineligible list, the situations aren't really comparable.  We don't know what would happen with Rose today because he can't be considered, and only one person's opinion ultimately matters in changing that.

Yeah, they kinda are comparable.     Only one person really cares about Pete Rose in the HOF.   And I think he's making more $$ by not being in the HOF so I'm not sure how much he cares.

Right now, I'm not sure anyone cares about A-Rod in the HOF.   I expect, in the near future, more people care about keeping him out than anything else about him.  And I don't think, should the PED guys start making their way in, that his situation is the same as a Bonds/Clemens.   He got busted AFTER the big PED explosion.  When it was explicitly clear to everyone that PED were not going to be tolerated.

I just can't envision some big groundswell of "Let's get A-Rod in the HOF" support occurring.



Edit to convey what I meant.

There's not some mammoth groundswell for Rose, but I think if he were reinstated, he'd immediately be a serious candidate to get in the next time the VC votes on players from his era.  Because I also don't think at this point there's particularly strong sentiment to keep him out based on what he did, but right now his punishment makes that irrelevant.

If the sentiment shifts to the point where a VC is letting the Bonds/Clemens of the world in, I don't suspect A-Rod getting caught at the tail-end of his career is going to be that big an extra hurdle. Especially because I'm willing to bet that 25 years from now it'll be common knowledge that the game isn't as clean now as people like to believe.

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/29/2015 2:33:00 PM (view original):
He's not ineligible. He just wouldn't get my vote. He won't get a lot of votes.

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 2:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 2:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 2:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 1:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 1:45:00 PM (view original):
I think we should ask Pete Rose.

Well, unless A-Rod finds a way to land himself on the permanently ineligible list, the situations aren't really comparable.  We don't know what would happen with Rose today because he can't be considered, and only one person's opinion ultimately matters in changing that.

Yeah, they kinda are comparable.     Only one person really cares about Pete Rose in the HOF.   And I think he's making more $$ by not being in the HOF so I'm not sure how much he cares.

Right now, I'm not sure anyone cares about A-Rod in the HOF.   I expect, in the near future, more people care about keeping him out than anything else about him.  And I don't think, should the PED guys start making their way in, that his situation is the same as a Bonds/Clemens.   He got busted AFTER the big PED explosion.  When it was explicitly clear to everyone that PED were not going to be tolerated.

I just can't envision some big groundswell of "Let's get A-Rod in the HOF" support occurring.



Edit to convey what I meant.

There's not some mammoth groundswell for Rose, but I think if he were reinstated, he'd immediately be a serious candidate to get in the next time the VC votes on players from his era.  Because I also don't think at this point there's particularly strong sentiment to keep him out based on what he did, but right now his punishment makes that irrelevant.

If the sentiment shifts to the point where a VC is letting the Bonds/Clemens of the world in, I don't suspect A-Rod getting caught at the tail-end of his career is going to be that big an extra hurdle. Especially because I'm willing to bet that 25 years from now it'll be common knowledge that the game isn't as clean now as people like to believe.

Time heals all wounds and Rose is the all-time hits leader.   The disdain for what Rose did as a manager isn't really bleeding over into his career.

But the VC now seems to be very much anti-PED.    Of course, that time thing could change things, but, unless some people start dying off, PED users aren't getting much sympathy from the VC.

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/29/2015 2:33:00 PM (view original):
He's not ineligible. He just wouldn't get my vote. He won't get a lot of votes.

Posted by tecwrg on 1/29/2015 2:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/29/2015 2:33:00 PM (view original):
He's not ineligible. He just wouldn't get my vote. He won't get a lot of votes.

It's fair to say that he'll likely get less support, both from the voters and the public, than Bonds and Clemens.

Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 2:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 2:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 2:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 2:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 1:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 1:45:00 PM (view original):
I think we should ask Pete Rose.

Well, unless A-Rod finds a way to land himself on the permanently ineligible list, the situations aren't really comparable.  We don't know what would happen with Rose today because he can't be considered, and only one person's opinion ultimately matters in changing that.

Yeah, they kinda are comparable.     Only one person really cares about Pete Rose in the HOF.   And I think he's making more $$ by not being in the HOF so I'm not sure how much he cares.

Right now, I'm not sure anyone cares about A-Rod in the HOF.   I expect, in the near future, more people care about keeping him out than anything else about him.  And I don't think, should the PED guys start making their way in, that his situation is the same as a Bonds/Clemens.   He got busted AFTER the big PED explosion.  When it was explicitly clear to everyone that PED were not going to be tolerated.

I just can't envision some big groundswell of "Let's get A-Rod in the HOF" support occurring.



Edit to convey what I meant.

There's not some mammoth groundswell for Rose, but I think if he were reinstated, he'd immediately be a serious candidate to get in the next time the VC votes on players from his era.  Because I also don't think at this point there's particularly strong sentiment to keep him out based on what he did, but right now his punishment makes that irrelevant.

If the sentiment shifts to the point where a VC is letting the Bonds/Clemens of the world in, I don't suspect A-Rod getting caught at the tail-end of his career is going to be that big an extra hurdle. Especially because I'm willing to bet that 25 years from now it'll be common knowledge that the game isn't as clean now as people like to believe.

Time heals all wounds and Rose is the all-time hits leader.   The disdain for what Rose did as a manager isn't really bleeding over into his career.

But the VC now seems to be very much anti-PED.    Of course, that time thing could change things, but, unless some people start dying off, PED users aren't getting much sympathy from the VC.

Well, the VC isn't currently voting on the guys in question, since they are still on the BBWAA ballot.  So we don't know what they are thinking now, but I'm sure they wouldn't be voting these guys in yet either.  My whole argument is prefaced on an eventual shift in sentiment toward PED users, which I assume will come at some point, but may not.  If that shift never comes, then ARod obviously isn't getting in, but neither are Clemens, Bonds, etc.

You're saying that ARod stays out even if that sentiment shift happens, that he would be viewed significantly differently from Bonds, Clemens, etc.  I disagree. Only time will ultimately tell.

Depends on the sentiment shift and, obviously, what happens in the future.   Right now you've got:
1.  "Clean" players.    Not suspected for whatever reason.   This befuddles me because I think everyone might have used but whatever.   Like a Jeter or a Maddux.
2.  "Suspected" players.   Players that some go "Ehhh, I don't know....."    Piazza, Bagwell guys.
3.  "Convicted" players.  Those who admitted or have a lot of evidence suggesting they used.   Bonds, Clemens.
4.  "Convicted", after the fact, players.   Those who were busted and suspended under the new rules.   A-Rod, Manny

The #4 list doesn't have many great players on it.   I count two.  And, of course, it could grow a lot.   If that happens, the sentiment shift might be huge.   In either direction.   But, as it stands, no one is feeling sympathetic to their cause.

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/29/2015 2:50:00 PM (view original):
ARod used roids after the JDA was put into place. We don't know if Bonds did or didn't over the last 2 years of his career. 

Posted by bad_luck on 1/28/2015 7:18:00 PM (view original):
Why do we care if athletes are ********? They aren't hired to be nice. They aren't bellhops or servers, their job is to be good at the sport they play.

Posted by wylie715 on 1/29/2015 3:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/28/2015 7:18:00 PM (view original):
Why do we care if athletes are ********? They aren't hired to be nice. They aren't bellhops or servers, their job is to be good at the sport they play.

I don't care if a player is an *******.  I liked Bonds and he was certainly an *******.  AROD is an *******, a cheater, an egotistical jerk and a liar and I don't like him. I also didn't like when he said that stuff about how Jeter was surrounded by great players and that's why Jeter won.  This is from the guy playing with one of the best left handed starting pitchers ever and one of the best centerfielders ever at the time, but complained because he wasn't surrounded by great players like Jeter was.  ADOD is a whiny little *****.