Yankees & Arod's Bonuses Topic

bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 1/29/2015 1:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 1/29/2015 1:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 12:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 11:22:00 AM (view original):
Eh.  I don't think the Vets Committee panel that eventually lets Bonds, Clemens, etc in is going to spend a lot of extra thought worrying about A-Rod.  And that day is still probably far enough away that not that many people will even really care about it anymore anyhow.
I expect A-Rod, and me for that matter, will be dead before his enshrinement is seriously discussed.
Disagree. He's 39. I'd be surprised if he's not in by the time he's 65. A lot can change in just a few years.

You might be dead in 25 years though, so maybe you're right on that.
Should we check back in with you in the year 2041?
Umm, OK. You don't think he'll ever get in?

I think the opinion of PED users will soften considerably in the future. Once Bonds and Clemens are in, Arod, Manny, and McGwire will get in.
1/29/2015 1:47 PM
AlCheez
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 1:45:00 PM (view original):
I think we should ask Pete Rose.
Well, unless A-Rod finds a way to land himself on the permanently ineligible list, the situations aren't really comparable.  We don't know what would happen with Rose today because he can't be considered, and only one person's opinion ultimately matters in changing that.
1/29/2015 1:53 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 1:53:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 1:45:00 PM (view original):
I think we should ask Pete Rose.
Well, unless A-Rod finds a way to land himself on the permanently ineligible list, the situations aren't really comparable.  We don't know what would happen with Rose today because he can't be considered, and only one person's opinion ultimately matters in changing that.
Exactly. Arod to isn't banned from baseball.
1/29/2015 1:55 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 1:53:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 1:45:00 PM (view original):
I think we should ask Pete Rose.
Well, unless A-Rod finds a way to land himself on the permanently ineligible list, the situations aren't really comparable.  We don't know what would happen with Rose today because he can't be considered, and only one person's opinion ultimately matters in changing that.

Yeah, they kinda are comparable.     Only one person really cares about Pete Rose in the HOF.   And I think he's making more $$ by not being in the HOF so I'm not sure how much he cares.

Right now, I'm not sure anyone cares about A-Rod in the HOF.   I expect, in the near future, more people care about keeping him out than anything else about him.  And I don't think, should the PED guys start making their way in, that his situation is the same as a Bonds/Clemens.   He got busted AFTER the big PED explosion.  When it was explicitly clear to everyone that PED were not going to be tolerated.

I just can't envision some big groundswell of "Let's get A-Rod in the HOF" support occurring.



Edit to convey what I meant.

1/29/2015 2:04 PM (edited)
tecwrg
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Posted by bad_luck on 1/29/2015 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 1/29/2015 1:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 1/29/2015 1:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 12:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 11:22:00 AM (view original):
Eh.  I don't think the Vets Committee panel that eventually lets Bonds, Clemens, etc in is going to spend a lot of extra thought worrying about A-Rod.  And that day is still probably far enough away that not that many people will even really care about it anymore anyhow.
I expect A-Rod, and me for that matter, will be dead before his enshrinement is seriously discussed.
Disagree. He's 39. I'd be surprised if he's not in by the time he's 65. A lot can change in just a few years.

You might be dead in 25 years though, so maybe you're right on that.
Should we check back in with you in the year 2041?
Umm, OK. You don't think he'll ever get in?

I think the opinion of PED users will soften considerably in the future. Once Bonds and Clemens are in, Arod, Manny, and McGwire will get in.
I've already stated in these forums that I believe the Steroid Era guys will eventually get in.  Maybe even 25 years from now.

I think ARod's situation is a different.  He doesn't just get lumped in with Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, etc.  Like the cheese, he stands alone.

1/29/2015 2:02 PM
MikeT23
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Not sure Manny gets in either.   For the same reason as A-Rod.   Busted after the big deal over PED was made. 


And, to be clear, I have no problem putting any/all of them in.  They were the best of the best in their era.   And everyone knows what they know about said era.
1/29/2015 2:06 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 2:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 1:53:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 1:45:00 PM (view original):
I think we should ask Pete Rose.
Well, unless A-Rod finds a way to land himself on the permanently ineligible list, the situations aren't really comparable.  We don't know what would happen with Rose today because he can't be considered, and only one person's opinion ultimately matters in changing that.

Yeah, they kinda are comparable.     Only one person really cares about Pete Rose in the HOF.   And I think he's making more $$ by not being in the HOF so I'm not sure how much he cares.

Right now, I'm not sure anyone cares about A-Rod in the HOF.   I expect, in the near future, more people care about keeping him out than anything else about him.  And I don't think, should the PED guys start making their way in, that his situation is the same as a Bonds/Clemens.   He got busted AFTER the big PED explosion.  When it was explicitly clear to everyone that PED were not going to be tolerated.

I just can't envision some big groundswell of "Let's get A-Rod in the HOF" support occurring.



Edit to convey what I meant.

But the reason Rose isn't in the Hall is that he's banned and therefore ineligible. The writers can't vote for him if they want to.

Arod isn't banned. He was suspended but is now allowed to play baseball. 

It isn't the same situation.
1/29/2015 2:08 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 1/29/2015 2:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 1/29/2015 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 1/29/2015 1:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 1/29/2015 1:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 12:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 11:22:00 AM (view original):
Eh.  I don't think the Vets Committee panel that eventually lets Bonds, Clemens, etc in is going to spend a lot of extra thought worrying about A-Rod.  And that day is still probably far enough away that not that many people will even really care about it anymore anyhow.
I expect A-Rod, and me for that matter, will be dead before his enshrinement is seriously discussed.
Disagree. He's 39. I'd be surprised if he's not in by the time he's 65. A lot can change in just a few years.

You might be dead in 25 years though, so maybe you're right on that.
Should we check back in with you in the year 2041?
Umm, OK. You don't think he'll ever get in?

I think the opinion of PED users will soften considerably in the future. Once Bonds and Clemens are in, Arod, Manny, and McGwire will get in.
I've already stated in these forums that I believe the Steroid Era guys will eventually get in.  Maybe even 25 years from now.

I think ARod's situation is a different.  He doesn't just get lumped in with Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, etc.  Like the cheese, he stands alone.

I don't think he will be treated any differently in the long run.
1/29/2015 2:10 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 2:06:00 PM (view original):
Not sure Manny gets in either.   For the same reason as A-Rod.   Busted after the big deal over PED was made. 


And, to be clear, I have no problem putting any/all of them in.  They were the best of the best in their era.   And everyone knows what they know about said era.
There is evidence that Bonds used PEDs after the JDA ("the big deal over PED") was put into place.
1/29/2015 2:12 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by tecwrg on 1/29/2015 2:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 1/29/2015 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 1/29/2015 1:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 1/29/2015 1:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 12:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 11:22:00 AM (view original):
Eh.  I don't think the Vets Committee panel that eventually lets Bonds, Clemens, etc in is going to spend a lot of extra thought worrying about A-Rod.  And that day is still probably far enough away that not that many people will even really care about it anymore anyhow.
I expect A-Rod, and me for that matter, will be dead before his enshrinement is seriously discussed.
Disagree. He's 39. I'd be surprised if he's not in by the time he's 65. A lot can change in just a few years.

You might be dead in 25 years though, so maybe you're right on that.
Should we check back in with you in the year 2041?
Umm, OK. You don't think he'll ever get in?

I think the opinion of PED users will soften considerably in the future. Once Bonds and Clemens are in, Arod, Manny, and McGwire will get in.
I've already stated in these forums that I believe the Steroid Era guys will eventually get in.  Maybe even 25 years from now.

I think ARod's situation is a different.  He doesn't just get lumped in with Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, etc.  Like the cheese, he stands alone.

1/29/2015 2:13 PM
AlCheez
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 2:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 1/29/2015 1:53:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/29/2015 1:45:00 PM (view original):
I think we should ask Pete Rose.
Well, unless A-Rod finds a way to land himself on the permanently ineligible list, the situations aren't really comparable.  We don't know what would happen with Rose today because he can't be considered, and only one person's opinion ultimately matters in changing that.

Yeah, they kinda are comparable.     Only one person really cares about Pete Rose in the HOF.   And I think he's making more $$ by not being in the HOF so I'm not sure how much he cares.

Right now, I'm not sure anyone cares about A-Rod in the HOF.   I expect, in the near future, more people care about keeping him out than anything else about him.  And I don't think, should the PED guys start making their way in, that his situation is the same as a Bonds/Clemens.   He got busted AFTER the big PED explosion.  When it was explicitly clear to everyone that PED were not going to be tolerated.

I just can't envision some big groundswell of "Let's get A-Rod in the HOF" support occurring.



Edit to convey what I meant.

There's not some mammoth groundswell for Rose, but I think if he were reinstated, he'd immediately be a serious candidate to get in the next time the VC votes on players from his era.  Because I also don't think at this point there's particularly strong sentiment to keep him out based on what he did, but right now his punishment makes that irrelevant.

If the sentiment shifts to the point where a VC is letting the Bonds/Clemens of the world in, I don't suspect A-Rod getting caught at the tail-end of his career is going to be that big an extra hurdle. Especially because I'm willing to bet that 25 years from now it'll be common knowledge that the game isn't as clean now as people like to believe.
1/29/2015 2:13 PM
The Taint
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Posted by burnsy483 on 1/29/2015 10:53:00 AM (view original):
If I were a voter, I'd look at the roiders in this way - anything before the "roid rules" were put into effect, is fine. It's a period of time where we were accepting of roiders, so it's hypocritical to hurt them now.  But AFTER the fact? Go screw, you're not in.
Just because specific roid rules were put in doesn't mean they weren't against the rules of baseball before hand.
1/29/2015 2:19 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by The Taint on 1/29/2015 2:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/29/2015 10:53:00 AM (view original):
If I were a voter, I'd look at the roiders in this way - anything before the "roid rules" were put into effect, is fine. It's a period of time where we were accepting of roiders, so it's hypocritical to hurt them now.  But AFTER the fact? Go screw, you're not in.
Just because specific roid rules were put in doesn't mean they weren't against the rules of baseball before hand.
What I took from burns' post wasn't so much, "player A used when they weren't banned and player B used when they were," but that MLB not only turned a blind eye to obvious PED use in the 1990's but also encouraged the use by celebrating the McGwire/Sosa home run records.

It was obvious that those guys (and many, many others) were using PEDs. Anyone claiming to be ignorant of that fact either wasn't paying attention or is lying.
1/29/2015 2:25 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by The Taint on 1/29/2015 2:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/29/2015 10:53:00 AM (view original):
If I were a voter, I'd look at the roiders in this way - anything before the "roid rules" were put into effect, is fine. It's a period of time where we were accepting of roiders, so it's hypocritical to hurt them now.  But AFTER the fact? Go screw, you're not in.
Just because specific roid rules were put in doesn't mean they weren't against the rules of baseball before hand.
Steroids were generally accepted before then. It's a rule of "Yea, you're not supposed to do that, but nobody cares. Everyone knows it's happening." People knew this guy was roiding and nobody cared. Look how happy everyone is for him:

www.youtube.com/watch


1/29/2015 2:26 PM
burnsy483
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Now, once we went through this whole mess with Mitchell and the new drug laws in MLB, it should be understood that this isn't anywhere close to acceptable anymore. So once you use again? No sympathy. 
1/29/2015 2:27 PM
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