Greatest Left Handed Pitcher of All Time Topic

Posted by doubletruck on 1/18/2015 8:42:00 PM (view original):
One thing missing in all HoF discussion is any significant knowledge by most of us about the great African-American players who have been added to the Hall.

It's possible that Satchel Paige was the greatest pitcher of all time without qualification.
It's possible but unlikely. Randy Johnson was probably better than Paige, too.
1/19/2015 5:26 PM
You have a serious man crush on the Big Unit. You are clearly unable to consider any argument at all that questions your beatification of Randy.

I think he's great, too. But that doesn't make him The Greatest Lefthander of All Time.

But, hey, you're winning your poll, so I guess you're happy and you can just assign my opinion to the trash bin.
1/19/2015 8:56 PM (edited)
Next question: Was Randy Johnson at his peak better than Walter Johnson, Greg Maddux or Pedro Martinez?

If so, then you could claim he is the best pitcher of all time...period.
1/19/2015 8:58 PM
I don't think Johnson's peak was as good as Pedro's or Maddux's.
1/19/2015 9:13 PM
One statistical tool we have is a measurement of how a pitcher ranked relative to the competition when he pitched. In other words, in the case of the greats, how far was he ahead of the average in his seasons. This, of course, means WHIP+ and OAV+.

So I tested these guys by this measurement: Avg. both stats for each one's best five seasons, and then add the two averages for a sort of index number.

The results: Pedro Martinez 302, Randy Johnson 274.8, Koufax 269.2, Walter Johnson 268, Maddux 267.6.

By that measurement, Randy gets an edge over Koufax, and Martinez is way ahead of everyone. I was highly impressed when I saw Randy and Sandy pitch, but I never saw anyone pitch with the movement and control that Pedro displayed. If he had been a longer, stronger man, we might still be enjoying his work today (or maybe he wouldn't have been the same).


 
1/19/2015 11:28 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/19/2015 10:47:00 AM (view original):

3. Eligible Candidates -- Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements:

A. A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning fifteen (15) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election.

B. Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3(A).

C. Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball.

D. In case of the death of an active player or a player who has been retired for less than five (5) full years, a candidate who is otherwise eligible shall be eligible in the next regular election held at least six (6) months after the date of death or after the end of the five (5) year period, whichever occurs first.

E. Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.

hey, a serious question here. If a guy was HOF worthy....slam dunk, no discussion necessary, and one of his 10 seasons was 1994, would that make him ineligible since there was no WS that year?
1/21/2015 1:56 AM
Posted by seamar_116 on 1/21/2015 1:56:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/19/2015 10:47:00 AM (view original):

3. Eligible Candidates -- Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements:

A. A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning fifteen (15) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election.

B. Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3(A).

C. Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball.

D. In case of the death of an active player or a player who has been retired for less than five (5) full years, a candidate who is otherwise eligible shall be eligible in the next regular election held at least six (6) months after the date of death or after the end of the five (5) year period, whichever occurs first.

E. Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.

hey, a serious question here. If a guy was HOF worthy....slam dunk, no discussion necessary, and one of his 10 seasons was 1994, would that make him ineligible since there was no WS that year?
Satchel Paige (1971)
Josh Gibson (1972)
Buck Leonard (1972)
Monte Irvin (1973)
Cool Papa Bell (1974)
Judy Johnson (1975)
Oscar Charleston (1976)
John Henry Lloyd (1977)
Martin Dihigo (1977)
Rube Foster (1981)
Ray Dandridge (1987)
Leon Day (1995)
Willie Foster (1996)
Willie Wells (1997)
Bullet Rogan (1998)
Smokey Joe Williams (1999)
Turkey Stearnes (2000)
Hilton Smith (2001)

would indicate that these are not hard and fast rules.
1/21/2015 1:58 AM
Can I assume all of them were Negro League selections?
1/21/2015 6:56 AM
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
Didn't take long to explain.    A Negro League Committee was formed in '71 -'77 for special inductions.    The others were Veteran's Committee elections.

So, yeah, 10 years still counts.   Exceptions can be made.
1/21/2015 8:27 AM
BARRY ******* ZITO!!!!!!!
1/27/2015 7:40 PM
MLB.tv just posted what they called the all-time best left-handed starters at run prevention. Lefty Grove 1st, Randy Johnson 3rd, Sandy Koufax 5th. They put Johann Santana 2nd. 

Brian Kenney said the stats were adjusted for each pitcher's playing environments. I assume that means they gave Grove a lot of credit for pitching during the hit-happy 1928-1939 seasons.

It came and went on the screen so fast that I can't tell you what stats categories they used.

2/19/2015 3:08 PM (edited)
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Greatest Left Handed Pitcher of All Time Topic

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