Posted by toddcommish on 12/22/2014 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/22/2014 12:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 12/22/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):
I would guess "small Asian women" don't reach into the cop's car and try to grab his gun.

John Crawford and Levar Jones didn't do that either. They were still shot and Crawford was killed.

Small Asian women also typically don't resist arrest or wave around toy guns

A) John Crawford and Levar Jones did not resist arrest.

B) Crawford was in a Walmart holding a toy gun that Walmart sells in a state where it's legal to carry actual guns in Walmart.

C) "Typically" is exactly my point. If a cop looks at a black man and worries that black men are typically more dangerous, that's a problem.

Posted by toddcommish on 12/22/2014 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/22/2014 12:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 12/22/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):
I would guess "small Asian women" don't reach into the cop's car and try to grab his gun.

John Crawford and Levar Jones didn't do that either. They were still shot and Crawford was killed.

Small Asian women also typically don't resist arrest or wave around toy guns

Even if they did, small women are less of a threat than large men.    It shouldn't require the same force to neutralize them.

Posted by bad_luck on 12/22/2014 1:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 12/22/2014 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/22/2014 12:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 12/22/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):
I would guess "small Asian women" don't reach into the cop's car and try to grab his gun.

John Crawford and Levar Jones didn't do that either. They were still shot and Crawford was killed.

Small Asian women also typically don't resist arrest or wave around toy guns

A) John Crawford and Levar Jones did not resist arrest.

B) Crawford was in a Walmart holding a toy gun that Walmart sells in a state where it's legal to carry actual guns in Walmart.

C) "Typically" is exactly my point. If a cop looks at a black man and worries that black men are typically more dangerous, that's a problem.

Part C. Its a problem that statistically black men ARE more dangerous. That's what needs to be addressed, in particular those in low income, high crime areas.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-25/forget-ferguson-244-teenagers-have-been-shot-chicago-michael-brown-died


In the 107 days since officer Darren Wilson shot and killed 18 year old Michael Brown – 12:03pm, Saturday, August 9th – the following stupidity has taken place in Chicago:

155 homicides (74% black males)
725 shot & wounded
Six (6) 18 year olds killed: Kawantis Montgomery, Kamaal Burton, Tony McIntos, Alexandra Burgos, Rayvon Little, Johnathan Cartwright
59 18 year olds shot & wounded
29 teenagers (13-19) killed
244 teenagers (13-19) shot and wounded
10 shot (5 killed) by the CPD

So shoot em before they shoot you, amirite?

If a cop looks at a man and a woman and thinks the woman is more dangerous, there's a problem.    As a general rule, men are bigger, stronger, faster and more aggressive.  

But, as usual, BL is stuck on color. 

By the way, I was cool with the "stop and frisk" in NYC. As long as it's not "you're black, frisking you" and it was "you're walking around a high-crime neighboorhood, frisking you." Yes, discriminate based on how often crime occurs in the area you're walking around in.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/22/2014 4:43:00 PM (view original):
If a cop looks at a man and a woman and thinks the woman is more dangerous, there's a problem.    As a general rule, men are bigger, stronger, faster and more aggressive.  

But, as usual, BL is stuck on color. 

Let's control for gender then.

Cop pulls 30 year old white guy over in average crime neighborhood.
Cop pulls 30 year old black guy over in the same neighborhood.

They are both driving the same year/make/model modestly priced, late model car. Nissan Altima-ish.

Is the cop a little more careful when dealing with the black guy? Is his hand a little closer to his gun? Is he more on edge? Is he more likely to get the black guy out of the car and pat him down? More likely to search the car? Is he more likely to shoot?

If the answer to those questions is, "yes," that's a problem. That's systematic racism.

I'm re-reading 'think and grow rich' and i just ran across this quote "when people first come into contact with crime, they abhor it. If they remain in contact with crime for a time, they become accustomed to it, and endure it. If they remain in contact with it long enough, they finally embrace it, and become influenced by it." the bigger problem is not racist police...its a culture that embraces crime, and is influenced by it. 'fixing' the police only takes the focus off the real issue - black crime, which includes black on black crime. need proof - look at the stats I just showed you above. From a personal perspective - I have a (half) black 2nd cousin - grew up in the projects cause his dad (my white cousin) was shot to death in his car in newark - probably drug related. now more than 10 years later the kid is 19 and going to college in California. Growing up though he was made fun of by his brothers and friends when he visited his mom (who was a drug addict and a prostitute). they called him whitey and made fun of how he was so smart like it was a bad thing. my 2nd cousin would tell me that those around his mom's projects believed a black man getting to 21 years old was an old man because most black men don't live that long or are in jail. that's the problem - not racist cops - and I'm proud of my 2nd cousin for not following down the path of poor decisions that his dad did. its not like he didn't have every opportunity to follow suit... he just took the advice of those that supported him, made better choices, and got the F out of there.

Two different issues, yes. Yes, people who grow up in an area where crime is common, without much expectation of living a great life, without much money, with a lower level education, without a ton of hope, where people do look at and consider you different because of how you look, where you live. Very difficult situation. And when you're around people without a ton of hope, people who commit crimes regularly, it's hard to consider the possibility of doing something great in your life, and it's easy to "settle" into your low-quality life. And when your children see the way you lived your life, they're destined to do the same.

Now - what did your cousin do that was different?

And what do you suggest to fix this problem? I've given ways to fix the "other" problem.

After a long custody battle, and additionally some family in-fighting as to who would raise him, he eventually lived with his dads younger sister who taught him one thing above all others.... and never stopped reminding him.... "Life is full of choices - and there are good choices and bad choices - its your decision". She would remind him his father and mother made some poor choices but he doesn't have to live like that. By no means was it easy for the kid, involved lots of hardship and tears, lots of 'you're not my mother', but he's made some tough (but good) choices and earned a football scholarship to go to college out west.

Bottom line - as MikeT would say... 'Good Parenting' as well as stressing the importance of education were the biggest fix. Secondarily I'd say having the option to get away from the violence and gangs.

But back to the topic at hand... The police are charged with patrolling this violence and keeping people safe. Many of the people they have to deal with or arrest are repeat offenders (like garner, brinsley, dontre hamilton, probably a brown juvy record which is why its not released) and they do a job I certainly would never do for $45,000 a year. The peace keepers are hardly the issue, even when 1 or 2 of them do a bad job... The problem is the perpetual culture of violence in many black communities. To get on this huge kick that the police are bad and are out to get black people is just an alibi to excuse the real issues. This is precisely imo the reason why things aren't improving in these communities... Its blame over accountability.

So your solution is telling people to "be a better parent" or "move." OK. I think we need more than that.

And yea, I haven't really blamed PDs on a whole, I think the majority do a great job, and I praised the NYPD earlier in this thread. Ferguson appears to have a ****** up PD. 

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/23/2014 9:10:00 AM (view original):
So your solution is telling people to "be a better parent" or "move." OK. I think we need more than that.

And yea, I haven't really blamed PDs on a whole, I think the majority do a great job, and I praised the NYPD earlier in this thread. Ferguson appears to have a ****** up PD. 

The start of the solution imo is better black leadership. People who aren't always looking to the past for excuses, but are showing people the path forward. Community, Education, Work Ethic, Parenting, Accountability, etc

I read an article in Time written by an Ivy League professor(not sure if I've mentioned it before).    While he didn't dismiss profiling, bad police, etc, etc as part of the problem, he chose to point out that the problem begins with young black men feeling they can, or even should, disrespect police.   He wondered where the distrust began and how to stop it.   I'm pretty sure it begins with the enviroment.  I don't think people can just up and move, it's not that simple, but parents can "teach" within the home.

As we can tell from Brown's stepfather, it's unlikely he was getting a good message.   I believe I read Garner had 6 kids.   What's the odds of them being arrested in the future?

So, yeah, "be a better parent" is a good idea.   No idea how to make that happen.

Posted by moy23 on 12/23/2014 9:44:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/23/2014 9:10:00 AM (view original):
So your solution is telling people to "be a better parent" or "move." OK. I think we need more than that.

And yea, I haven't really blamed PDs on a whole, I think the majority do a great job, and I praised the NYPD earlier in this thread. Ferguson appears to have a ****** up PD. 

The start of the solution imo is better black leadership. People who aren't always looking to the past for excuses, but are showing people the path forward. Community, Education, Work Ethic, Parenting, Accountability, etc

OK. How do you do that? 

"Be a better parent"

"Be a better leader"

Great ideas, but the problem is that these don't exist enough. Fixing the problem by saying "fix the problem" isn't a fix.

Your parents suck at raising you because they didn't have great parents or a great education. They lived in a community where they were mistreated, told they weren't as good as others, that they were different. Those experiences they had are essentially passed down to you. And so on and so forth. Are there people who "break away" and figure it out? Yea, but it doesn't happen enough.

So saying "be a better parent" isn't a solution to the problem of "you're a bad parent." The leader likely doesn't exist because the majority of the black population is in the situation that is the problem right now.