Unrated Abilities and Pitch Selection Topic

Here, I'll help you.

Find 3 catchers who caught at least 75% of the team innings.    Then find 4 pitchers on that team(RHP/LHP high AS, RHP/LHP low AS) who had at least 100 innings each.    Then bring us the data to support your claim.   I'll expect, on all three teams, that the soft-tossing RHP has a horrible CS% and the flame-throwing LHP has a fantastic CS%.     You tell me where the other two should fall, in the middle of course, of the other two.
10/21/2014 4:42 PM
FWIW, it took me about 10 seconds to find the example that disproved your theory.  I knew Melendez caught most of the innings for my WS loser.    It won't be hard to find in your worlds either.
10/21/2014 4:44 PM
I don't understand "hunting" for reasons to make the game more complex than it already is.  The game is relatively straight forward - each rating is spelled out pretty well for you.  Catchers determine base-stealing frequency and success, pitchers don't.

As I told pj before, it's also bad form to hypothesize other ideas on how the game works, when you have little to no data, and many users who struggle with the complexity of the game come here for help, and see your nonsense.  It's the main reason I'll give you ****...it has little to do with you, and more to do with people looking for help.  The game is hard enough as it is, new players shouldn't be looking at arm strength for pitchers.
10/21/2014 5:04 PM

Yeah, that's the issue I have with his BS theories.    New owners don't necessarily know who's making claims.    Pop in, see "Pitcher's AS determine CS%" and hit search for the FA in your world.   You end up with a bunch of ****** pitchers with fantastic arm strength.

10/21/2014 5:08 PM
Theories without data are just theories.

Theory presented as fact is misinformation.

Misinformation presented unintentionally is forgivable, if reckless.

Misinformation presented intentionally... Well, I can soft pedal it and just call it unsportsmanlike.
10/21/2014 5:24 PM
I looked at one of my teams that has a catcher who gets the bulk of the workload (around 86% of all innings), and four pitchers, over three consecutive seasons (Mantle, S31-S33).

The catcher is Dean Schmidt.  The pitchers are RHPs Ronnie Gallagher and Frank Petersen, and LHPs Ed Jodie and Bennie Walker.

Over those three seasons, the two lefties have the higher CS percentage.  Walker at .480 (24/50), and Jodie at .459 (28/61).  The two righties check in with almost identical numbers, with Gallagher at .298 (23/77) and Petersen at .299 (20/67).  Though even those numbers are not really consistent as, for instance, Gallagher varied from .129 in S33 to .462 in S32 to .350 in S31.  Likewise for Jodie, who varied from .560 -> .304 -> .538.

Probably need more data samples for other pitchers throwing to the same catchers, but if there's any correlation, it might be LHP having a better CS percentage than RHP.  But we need more data to correlate.

As far as arm strength goes . . . the pitcher with the weakest arm in my sample, Walker (AS = 35) had the highest CS percentage.  Jodie was next at (AS = 91), and the two righties were similar to each other (Gallagher AS  = 54, Petersen AS = 59).

10/21/2014 8:05 PM
Did I miss where it was successfully concluded that pick offs count as caught stealing?
10/21/2014 9:39 PM
That's how pickoffs are scored in baseball, yes.
10/21/2014 9:42 PM
But that's not how they are scored in HBD. 
10/21/2014 9:46 PM
I'm pretty sure they are.    I've seen teams set at "Never" steal setting and be 0-6 on the season.  Checking the boxes, those 6 were picked off.
10/21/2014 10:32 PM
Well you had to go and make me do some research, didn't you?

Here's what I found:

http://www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/Boxscore.aspx?gid=66311189&pbp=0

B
aserunner was picked off first base in the top of the first.  The baserunner was charged with a caught stealing, but neither the pitcher nor the catcher was credited with a caught stealing.

I suspect that could be a bug.

According to the official scoring rules: (a) if a baserunner is picked off and he makes a move towards the next base and is thrown out, he will be charged with a caught stealing, and (b) if a baserunner is picked off and he does NOT make a move to the next base (i.e. he tries to return to the base he was on), he will NOT be charged with a caught stealing.

Those scoring rules only talk about caught stealing for the baserunner.  Nothing about how the fielders (pitcher and catcher) should be credited.  But one would think that, just as in an accounting ledger, the numbers should add up.  A caught stealing against the baserunner should be reflected as a caught stealing somewhere in the defensive stats.

10/21/2014 10:39 PM
Here is why I say they aren't scored that way. Closer Allen picks off runner in the 9th, catcher doesn't get a CS credited to them and let's assume Allen does, so he'd be at 1 CS on the season. http://www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/Boxscore.aspx?gid=66033363

F
ast forward to this box score: http://www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/Boxscore.aspx?gid=66487159

A
gain Allen has a pick off in the 9th, again the C isn't credited with a CS, and based off these two games alone Allen should have 2 CS to his credit on the season, but he doesn't. He only has 1. 

Without looking through his entire season's game log, I take that to mean a pitcher's CS stat does not include pick offs, only runners that are caught stealing (from the C) while that P is on the mound. Thusly, a pitcher's arm strength will have ZERO impact on caught stealing stats and/or pickoffs are not included in either the C's or P's CS stat.






10/21/2014 10:46 PM
And as a double-check: 

Total season defensive stats in Mantle (79 games in):  774 caught stealing, and 79 pickoffs.

Total season offensive stats in Mantle (79 games in): 853 caught stealing

774 + 79 = 853

So pickoffs are being scored as caught stealing offensively, but nothing defensively (other than assists and put-outs).
10/21/2014 10:47 PM
Where did you go to find out the pickoffs in a total season? Can't seem to find it under any statistics pages.
10/21/2014 10:50 PM
Posted by frymaster99 on 10/21/2014 10:50:00 PM (view original):
Where did you go to find out the pickoffs in a total season? Can't seem to find it under any statistics pages.
Team Statistics --> Fielding, Extended
10/21/2014 10:54 PM
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