ARod's Value on the Open Market Topic

Posted by tecwrg on 9/30/2014 9:32:00 PM (view original):
I'm with Mike.  ARod goes unsigned.

You keep insisting that he has a certain level of performance value that he can offer.  I think you are overestimating what that value actually will be.

You also keep insisting that teams will ignore the baggage that comes along with ARod, that what he can offer on the field trumps the baggage.  While that may be true for many/most players, I think ARod is the exception.  His story is so much of an outlier, such as Bonds was, that he's on the outside looking in.

The sticking point for me is production.    Sure, if they were getting MVP ARod, teams are drooling over him.   He hasn't been that guy in 4-5 years.  Injuries, age and lack of supplements have taken it's toll. 

Maybe someone takes a flier after missing their FA targets and deciding Timmy TripleA isn't the guy they want to go with.    But I don't think teams are making offers until they explore every other option.   There's just too much noise and no guarantee of production.  And while there's never a guarantee of production, a 40 y/o who hasn't taken a swing in 18 months after only getting a couple hundred PA in the previous twelve seems more like a guarantee of non-production.

9/30/2014 9:40 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 9/30/2014 9:32:00 PM (view original):
I'm with Mike.  ARod goes unsigned.

You keep insisting that he has a certain level of performance value that he can offer.  I think you are overestimating what that value actually will be.

You also keep insisting that teams will ignore the baggage that comes along with ARod, that what he can offer on the field trumps the baggage.  While that may be true for many/most players, I think ARod is the exception.  His story is so much of an outlier, such as Bonds was, that he's on the outside looking in.
Of course you're with Mike.  You live most of your life hanging from his nutsack.

For the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't even matter what his "performance value" will be.  He just needs at least 1 GM who thinks there's a chance it will be significant.

And let's not forget, Bonds was given a gig by the Giants as a roving instructor for ST this season.  McGwire is a hitting coach.  The marginal value of a coach vs. a player is substantially lower, but it's gotten to the point where PED use no longer carries such a stigma, and it's seen more like spitballing by enough people to reopen the market for even convicted users.  If you really think that Bonds can get a job and A-Rod can't, you're gonna need to explain why in pretty clear detail.
9/30/2014 10:16 PM
Can you stretch that even further?

Barry Bonds being able to spend a week with a team during Spring Training, 7 years after his forced retirement = Giving A-Rod a contract to play for a team?

You mentioned McGwire as well. What did he do after retirement? He spent 8 years in almost total seclusion!
10/1/2014 1:54 AM
What's your point?  Do you have one?

Right now, franchises are giving jobs to the "blacklisted" PED guys.  It's not 5 years ago when no team would be caught dead with Bonds or McGwire near the locker room, potentially casting doubt on their other players.  It doesn't matter what Bonds or Mac was doing 5 years ago.  Right now they're working in baseball.

And it's a lot harder to find a FA 3B with any kind of odds to OPS .750+ than it is to find hitting coaches and ST instructors.

10/1/2014 3:27 AM
If ARod were a free agent (or if the Yankees said just take the guy and we'll eat all but $6M of his contract) there would be no interest anywhere. The reason McGwire/Bonds can come back, is because the hubbub about them died down after them being gone from the game for so long, not because of PED stigma declining as you erroneously think. And it's not really just the PED, it's the way they handled it. Giambi, Pettitte, etc admitted use and people like "eh, ok".

If ARod is an MVP candidate you deal with it, if he's an All-Star you deal with it, if he's pushing 40 and at best might be a league average player, you say no and get someone else.



If ARod were gone for 5 years he might get an invite to walk around ST for a week.
10/1/2014 4:42 AM
Posted by dahsdebater on 9/30/2014 10:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 9/30/2014 9:32:00 PM (view original):
I'm with Mike.  ARod goes unsigned.

You keep insisting that he has a certain level of performance value that he can offer.  I think you are overestimating what that value actually will be.

You also keep insisting that teams will ignore the baggage that comes along with ARod, that what he can offer on the field trumps the baggage.  While that may be true for many/most players, I think ARod is the exception.  His story is so much of an outlier, such as Bonds was, that he's on the outside looking in.
Of course you're with Mike.  You live most of your life hanging from his nutsack.

For the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't even matter what his "performance value" will be.  He just needs at least 1 GM who thinks there's a chance it will be significant.

And let's not forget, Bonds was given a gig by the Giants as a roving instructor for ST this season.  McGwire is a hitting coach.  The marginal value of a coach vs. a player is substantially lower, but it's gotten to the point where PED use no longer carries such a stigma, and it's seen more like spitballing by enough people to reopen the market for even convicted users.  If you really think that Bonds can get a job and A-Rod can't, you're gonna need to explain why in pretty clear detail.
First, thanks for the kind words.

Second, your attempted point here is beyond retarded.

Nobody gives a **** if a coach or a roving instructor used to use PEDs.  Or even if they still do.  Because they're not the ones on the field playing the game.

So trying to compare coaches or roving instructors who juiced during their playing days to still-active players who have juiced is, well, beyond retarded.
10/1/2014 7:41 AM (edited)
Posted by dahsdebater on 9/30/2014 10:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 9/30/2014 9:32:00 PM (view original):
I'm with Mike.  ARod goes unsigned.

You keep insisting that he has a certain level of performance value that he can offer.  I think you are overestimating what that value actually will be.

You also keep insisting that teams will ignore the baggage that comes along with ARod, that what he can offer on the field trumps the baggage.  While that may be true for many/most players, I think ARod is the exception.  His story is so much of an outlier, such as Bonds was, that he's on the outside looking in.
Of course you're with Mike.  You live most of your life hanging from his nutsack.

For the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't even matter what his "performance value" will be.  He just needs at least 1 GM who thinks there's a chance it will be significant.

And let's not forget, Bonds was given a gig by the Giants as a roving instructor for ST this season.  McGwire is a hitting coach.  The marginal value of a coach vs. a player is substantially lower, but it's gotten to the point where PED use no longer carries such a stigma, and it's seen more like spitballing by enough people to reopen the market for even convicted users.  If you really think that Bonds can get a job and A-Rod can't, you're gonna need to explain why in pretty clear detail.
LOL.   Guys disappear for 6-8 years and get a gig as a roving instructor/hitting coach.    Let's talk about 50 y/o ARod doing one of those things and not 40 y/o ARod trying to get a job as a player.
10/1/2014 6:43 AM
Hell, let's play this silly game.

What's Sammy Sosa doing?
How about Rafael Palmeiro?

THEY CAN'T EVEN GET GIGS AS ROVING INSTRUCTORS IN ST!!!!!
10/1/2014 8:01 AM
If A-Rod won't deliver a valuable level of performance, why would the Yankees continue with him on the team?
10/1/2014 9:16 AM
He's currently under contract with them for a boatload of money.  Their only two options are keep him on the roster, or release him and eat the contract.

I would have no problem with the latter.

10/1/2014 9:24 AM
They're paying him 60m.   They HAVE to find out.   In this scenario, no one has to find out ****.
10/1/2014 9:26 AM
FWIW, if A-Rod is 212/298/343 at the AS break, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he was released. 
10/1/2014 9:27 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 10/1/2014 9:24:00 AM (view original):
He's currently under contract with them for a boatload of money.  Their only two options are keep him on the roster, or release him and eat the contract.

I would have no problem with the latter.

Releasing him now would be insane.
10/1/2014 9:34 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/1/2014 9:27:00 AM (view original):
FWIW, if A-Rod is 212/298/343 at the AS break, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he was released. 
I would. Eating the contract based on a couple hundred PA? Yikes. If he's hitting .290/.380/.510 would you give him a contract extension?
10/1/2014 9:36 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/1/2014 9:26:00 AM (view original):
They're paying him 60m.   They HAVE to find out.   In this scenario, no one has to find out ****.
In this scenario you get to make a relatively small bet to see if he can still hit. $8-10m isn't a lot for a baseball team.
10/1/2014 9:37 AM
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ARod's Value on the Open Market Topic

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