Posted by tecwrg on 9/30/2014 12:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/30/2014 12:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 12:03:00 PM (view original):
There's no real evidence of collusion.  But it's incredible to think that every team would fail to offer Bonds a contract after the season he just had in his last year.  

Yeah, it's purely speculation on my part but Selig has had a couple run-ins with the c word before. It wouldn't surprise me if he had been involved again.

Are you confusing Selig with Ueberroth?

No, I'm not.

Posted by tecwrg on 9/30/2014 12:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 12:03:00 PM (view original):
There's no real evidence of collusion.  But it's incredible to think that every team would fail to offer Bonds a contract after the season he just had in his last year.  

Bonds was a pariah, too.  It's no surprise that nobody wanted to touch him.    There's no valid reason to think there was any collusion there, unless you're a conspiracy theorist.

It's a HUGE surprise that nobody wanted to touch him.  He was still one of the best hitters in the league.  Manny was pretty close to being a pariah, too, and not just for "cheating" and being an unpleasant person, as Bonds was, but for actively quitting on multiple teams.  And the multiple PED suspensions.  And he's still getting minor league contracts last year and this.  If you have the talent, ordinarily speaking, there is a market for your services.  Bonds undeniably had the talent.  I think you could reasonably expect at least 5 or 6 teams to have talked to him in 2008, if quietly under the table, unless there was some kind of agreement not to do so.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/30/2014 12:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 9/30/2014 12:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/30/2014 12:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 12:03:00 PM (view original):
There's no real evidence of collusion.  But it's incredible to think that every team would fail to offer Bonds a contract after the season he just had in his last year.  

Yeah, it's purely speculation on my part but Selig has had a couple run-ins with the c word before. It wouldn't surprise me if he had been involved again.

Are you confusing Selig with Ueberroth?

No, I'm not.

So what are you referring to?

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 11:28:00 AM (view original):
Why do you think resting last year was a bad thing?

Non-bench players, age 40 or older this year:

Jeter - $12M
Colon - $9M
Ichiro - $6.5M
Hawkins - $2.25M

I'm assuming that a team would sign him as a starting 3B, of course.  You can look across the league at 3B who are done with their arb years, the majority make more than $6M.  Alberto Callaspo, the last guy on your list on Page 1, almost made $5M this year. His career OPS is .700.

Uh, are you talking about what they made or what they're worth?

Jeter and Ichiro both had sub 100 OPS+ seasons. 
Colon is a pitcher and we discussed that in the other thread about 40 y/o players.
Hawkins made 2.25m not 6m(and he's a pitcher).

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/30/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 9/30/2014 12:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 12:03:00 PM (view original):
There's no real evidence of collusion.  But it's incredible to think that every team would fail to offer Bonds a contract after the season he just had in his last year.  

Bonds was a pariah, too.  It's no surprise that nobody wanted to touch him.    There's no valid reason to think there was any collusion there, unless you're a conspiracy theorist.

It's a HUGE surprise that nobody wanted to touch him.  He was still one of the best hitters in the league.  Manny was pretty close to being a pariah, too, and not just for "cheating" and being an unpleasant person, as Bonds was, but for actively quitting on multiple teams.  And the multiple PED suspensions.  And he's still getting minor league contracts last year and this.  If you have the talent, ordinarily speaking, there is a market for your services.  Bonds undeniably had the talent.  I think you could reasonably expect at least 5 or 6 teams to have talked to him in 2008, if quietly under the table, unless there was some kind of agreement not to do so.

Not really.  There comes a time for every athlete when cost(monetary and otherwise) outweighs benefit.   He was also pushing 43 y/o the start of the anti-PED era.    More than anything, I think being Barry Bonds kept him out of the game.

Posted by tecwrg on 9/30/2014 12:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/30/2014 12:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 9/30/2014 12:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/30/2014 12:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 12:03:00 PM (view original):
There's no real evidence of collusion.  But it's incredible to think that every team would fail to offer Bonds a contract after the season he just had in his last year.  

Yeah, it's purely speculation on my part but Selig has had a couple run-ins with the c word before. It wouldn't surprise me if he had been involved again.

Are you confusing Selig with Ueberroth?

No, I'm not.

So what are you referring to?

The 2002 settlement. The 2007 allegations. The Bonds (and others) allegations in 2008.

And he participated as an owner in the 80's when collusion was proven.

Bonds had an OPS over 1 the year before. That's the reason it's suspicious. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/30/2014 12:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/30/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 9/30/2014 12:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 12:03:00 PM (view original):
There's no real evidence of collusion.  But it's incredible to think that every team would fail to offer Bonds a contract after the season he just had in his last year.  

Bonds was a pariah, too.  It's no surprise that nobody wanted to touch him.    There's no valid reason to think there was any collusion there, unless you're a conspiracy theorist.

It's a HUGE surprise that nobody wanted to touch him.  He was still one of the best hitters in the league.  Manny was pretty close to being a pariah, too, and not just for "cheating" and being an unpleasant person, as Bonds was, but for actively quitting on multiple teams.  And the multiple PED suspensions.  And he's still getting minor league contracts last year and this.  If you have the talent, ordinarily speaking, there is a market for your services.  Bonds undeniably had the talent.  I think you could reasonably expect at least 5 or 6 teams to have talked to him in 2008, if quietly under the table, unless there was some kind of agreement not to do so.

Not really.  There comes a time for every athlete when cost(monetary and otherwise) outweighs benefit.   He was also pushing 43 y/o the start of the anti-PED era.    More than anything, I think being Barry Bonds kept him out of the game.

He had a 169 OPS+ the year before. Collusion is a very real possibility, even if it can't be proven. Like dahs said, even Ramirez had multiple chances to make a roster and his skills had declined much more than Bonds'.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/30/2014 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 11:28:00 AM (view original):
Why do you think resting last year was a bad thing?

Non-bench players, age 40 or older this year:

Jeter - $12M
Colon - $9M
Ichiro - $6.5M
Hawkins - $2.25M

I'm assuming that a team would sign him as a starting 3B, of course.  You can look across the league at 3B who are done with their arb years, the majority make more than $6M.  Alberto Callaspo, the last guy on your list on Page 1, almost made $5M this year. His career OPS is .700.

Uh, are you talking about what they made or what they're worth?

Jeter and Ichiro both had sub 100 OPS+ seasons. 
Colon is a pitcher and we discussed that in the other thread about 40 y/o players.
Hawkins made 2.25m not 6m(and he's a pitcher).

What the market value of their services were.  Ichiro blows and made that.  That's the point.  $6M for ARod isn't crazy.

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 12:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/30/2014 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 11:28:00 AM (view original):
Why do you think resting last year was a bad thing?

Non-bench players, age 40 or older this year:

Jeter - $12M
Colon - $9M
Ichiro - $6.5M
Hawkins - $2.25M

I'm assuming that a team would sign him as a starting 3B, of course.  You can look across the league at 3B who are done with their arb years, the majority make more than $6M.  Alberto Callaspo, the last guy on your list on Page 1, almost made $5M this year. His career OPS is .700.

Uh, are you talking about what they made or what they're worth?

Jeter and Ichiro both had sub 100 OPS+ seasons. 
Colon is a pitcher and we discussed that in the other thread about 40 y/o players.
Hawkins made 2.25m not 6m(and he's a pitcher).

What the market value of their services were.  Ichiro blows and made that.  That's the point.  $6M for ARod isn't crazy.

Uh, it was the Yankees.   I assume the Yankees would not be in the A-Rod market. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/30/2014 12:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 12:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/30/2014 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 11:28:00 AM (view original):
Why do you think resting last year was a bad thing?

Non-bench players, age 40 or older this year:

Jeter - $12M
Colon - $9M
Ichiro - $6.5M
Hawkins - $2.25M

I'm assuming that a team would sign him as a starting 3B, of course.  You can look across the league at 3B who are done with their arb years, the majority make more than $6M.  Alberto Callaspo, the last guy on your list on Page 1, almost made $5M this year. His career OPS is .700.

Uh, are you talking about what they made or what they're worth?

Jeter and Ichiro both had sub 100 OPS+ seasons. 
Colon is a pitcher and we discussed that in the other thread about 40 y/o players.
Hawkins made 2.25m not 6m(and he's a pitcher).

What the market value of their services were.  Ichiro blows and made that.  That's the point.  $6M for ARod isn't crazy.

Uh, it was the Yankees.   I assume the Yankees would not be in the A-Rod market. 

Why not? They need a third baseman, have the cash to pay him, and can obviously handle the distraction.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/30/2014 12:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/30/2014 12:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 12:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/30/2014 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 11:28:00 AM (view original):
Why do you think resting last year was a bad thing?

Non-bench players, age 40 or older this year:

Jeter - $12M
Colon - $9M
Ichiro - $6.5M
Hawkins - $2.25M

I'm assuming that a team would sign him as a starting 3B, of course.  You can look across the league at 3B who are done with their arb years, the majority make more than $6M.  Alberto Callaspo, the last guy on your list on Page 1, almost made $5M this year. His career OPS is .700.

Uh, are you talking about what they made or what they're worth?

Jeter and Ichiro both had sub 100 OPS+ seasons. 
Colon is a pitcher and we discussed that in the other thread about 40 y/o players.
Hawkins made 2.25m not 6m(and he's a pitcher).

What the market value of their services were.  Ichiro blows and made that.  That's the point.  $6M for ARod isn't crazy.

Uh, it was the Yankees.   I assume the Yankees would not be in the A-Rod market. 

Why not? They need a third baseman, have the cash to pay him, and can obviously handle the distraction.

If this was the NFL, they'd cut A-Rod a year ago.  They might cut him anyway.

They wouldn't be.  But did Ichrio get $6.5M because it's the Yankees? Or did they think another team might be offering $6M? 

OK, since no one else would do the work, 64 players made 15m or more last season.  230 made 6m or more.  1456 made BL money.

In fairness, I'd say there were less than 1000 "legit" BL players.   

So around 7% were in that magical 15m that A-Rod would make with bonuses and the like and less than 1/4 made that "not that much in today's market" 6m.   Do we really think ARod will fall into the top 25% with all things considered?  

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/30/2014 1:02:00 PM (view original):
They wouldn't be.  But did Ichrio get $6.5M because it's the Yankees? Or did they think another team might be offering $6M? 

I'd say it was because it's the Yankees.  They were flinging money around like they had a tree full of it.   Did you hear of anyone else negotiating with Ichiro?