Catcher range and throwing errors Topic

Shawn Wooten A+ /C- / A+, 1.000 fielding percentage.

Makes 5 errors at catcher while at 100 for fatigue.

All are throwing errors (two wild throws on SB attempts, three wild pick-off attempts).

No + or - plays for the season.

ANY WAY THE ERRORS ARE THE RESULT OF THE C- RANGE RATING AS CUSTOMER SERVICE CLAIMS?

9/10/2014 11:46 AM (edited)
You pose an interesting question, and I am not going to claim that I have the definitive answer.  But I wouldn't have guessed that a catcher's range has anything to do with it.  If that is what customer service told you, then I guess I cannot necessarily debate that answer.  But I highly question it.

I've used that Wooten season on 3 different occasions and for whatever it is worth, he has had zero, one, and three errors in those three seasons.  The three errors was from when I most recently used him.

It states in the knowledge database that "Players who have played at a position but less than 20 real-life games are penalized."  But that shouldn't be the issue here because Wooten appeared in 25 games as a catcher in real life.

DH is Wooten's primary position that season, is there perhaps a penalty for a player being used at a secondary position even though he played over 20 games in real life?  I don't know, just wondering aloud?  It does seems a little off that a catcher with an A+ rating and 1.000 fielding percentage would commit 5 errors while always playing at 100%.
9/10/2014 11:58 PM
I am thinking along the same lines as HoB.  I don't think range has anything to do with the errors.  His performance history shows a FP of .989 but conceivably that is due to overuse/ fatigue.  I did note that his performance history shows an average of 2 errors compared to 19 assists. 

I thought to figure this out I'd look at other 1.00 FP catchers with similar range but more PAs to avoid over-use/ fatigue effects.  I found '56 Elston Howard with similar fielding stats .989 FPl; 3 & 37 errors & assists.

'58 Berra who was primarily a catcher and was an A- fielder isn't too different either: .989, 5 & 56.

I though there might be something to this and found that most catchers with a 1.00 FP still have the same ratio of errors to assists (~1:10) regardless of range.  So I am guessing that ratio is "normal" for catcher s with  a 1.00 FP.  I won't bore you with the math but given my above conclusion and  Shawn Wooten's performance history, I can calculate those 5 errors are somewhere around the 5 percentile of his performance.  That is 95% of the time he will make fewer than 5 errors.  So it sounds like you got unlucky but not extremely so.   




9/11/2014 3:14 AM
But why does he make any errors at all? HoJo at SS w/ A+/D- 1.000, has only ever made an error for me if his fatigue slips below 100%.

His performace history shows 0 errors at short and a .999 fielding pct.

93 McLemore at 2B w/ A+/D 1.000, perf history 0 errors and 1.000.

BUT - 97 Charles Johnson at C w/ A+/A+/A+ 1.000 (zero real-life errors in 973 chances). His performance history shows 5 errors and .990 in 107 games and 583 chances.

9/11/2014 12:36 PM (edited)
Posted by teaparty on 9/11/2014 12:36:00 PM (view original):
But why does he make any errors at all? HoJo at SS w/ A+/D- 1.000, has only ever made an error for me if his fatigue slips below 100%.

His performace history shows 0 errors at short and a .999 fielding pct.

93 McLemore at 2B w/ A+/D 1.000, perf history 0 errors and 1.000.

BUT - 97 Charles Johnson at C w/ A+/A+/A+ 1.000 (zero real-life errors in 973 chances). His performance history shows 5 errors and .990 in 107 games and 583 chances.

Who is Wooten throwing to? Maybe your players covering 2B and 1B on those throws have poor range or fielding and the ball is getting away from them? The error would go to Wooten on the throw if it were missed by one of your fielders.
9/11/2014 4:14 PM
Posted by teaparty on 9/11/2014 12:36:00 PM (view original):
But why does he make any errors at all? HoJo at SS w/ A+/D- 1.000, has only ever made an error for me if his fatigue slips below 100%.

His performace history shows 0 errors at short and a .999 fielding pct.

93 McLemore at 2B w/ A+/D 1.000, perf history 0 errors and 1.000.

BUT - 97 Charles Johnson at C w/ A+/A+/A+ 1.000 (zero real-life errors in 973 chances). His performance history shows 5 errors and .990 in 107 games and 583 chances.

I am not sure why he makes errors, only it is normal that he does in the sim.
Here is his performance history.

I wouldn't bother with FP because catchers are credited for a putout on Ks where there is almost no chance of an error.  Just look at errors and assists.  The data consistently shows a 1.00 FP catcher has about a 9% chance of an error when throwing the ball. 

Player # E A
58 Berra 10 5 56
03 Matheny 7 3 46
46 Rosar 2 4 70
97 Johnson 27 5 49
94 Leyritz 2 3 33
08 Ianetta 1 1 16
08 Inge 6 3 40
08 Snyder 2 5 43
97 Hoiles 1 3 22
56 Howard 79 3 37
57 Berberet 4 3 32
01 Wooten 299 2 19





9/11/2014 9:55 PM
Posted by zubinsum on 9/11/2014 9:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by teaparty on 9/11/2014 12:36:00 PM (view original):
But why does he make any errors at all? HoJo at SS w/ A+/D- 1.000, has only ever made an error for me if his fatigue slips below 100%.

His performace history shows 0 errors at short and a .999 fielding pct.

93 McLemore at 2B w/ A+/D 1.000, perf history 0 errors and 1.000.

BUT - 97 Charles Johnson at C w/ A+/A+/A+ 1.000 (zero real-life errors in 973 chances). His performance history shows 5 errors and .990 in 107 games and 583 chances.

I am not sure why he makes errors, only it is normal that he does in the sim.
Here is his performance history.

I wouldn't bother with FP because catchers are credited for a putout on Ks where there is almost no chance of an error.  Just look at errors and assists.  The data consistently shows a 1.00 FP catcher has about a 9% chance of an error when throwing the ball. 

Player # E A
58 Berra 10 5 56
03 Matheny 7 3 46
46 Rosar 2 4 70
97 Johnson 27 5 49
94 Leyritz 2 3 33
08 Ianetta 1 1 16
08 Inge 6 3 40
08 Snyder 2 5 43
97 Hoiles 1 3 22
56 Howard 79 3 37
57 Berberet 4 3 32
01 Wooten 299 2 19





Yes, it is normal for 1.000 fp catchers to make errors in the SIM (while at 100%), but not for other positions: that's what I'm questioning.

There may be a correlation between assists and throwing errors, but since A+ arms get their assists with a fraction of the throws to second base on steal attempts, they would actually be making errors on a much higher percentage of their throws.

i.e. A+ arm throws out 44 of 100 base stealers, but makes 4 throwing errors (9% of assists). That's one error every 25 throws to second.
D- arm throws out 44 of 280 base stealers, makes 4 throwing errors (9% of assists). That's one error every 75 throws to second.
9/12/2014 5:59 PM
I wonder if ALL the errors from 1.000 FLD catchers are from SB attempts and pick offs (I know you said that was the case in your example)......
9/12/2014 6:47 PM
Name SN A E Fld%
Berra, Yogi 1950 120 14 0.987
Mauer, Joe 2008 114 7 0.989
Mauer, Joe 2006 111 5 0.992
Mauer, Joe 2006 103 13 0.979
Mauer, Joe 2006 99 10 0.982
Mauer, Joe 2006 97 10 0.986
Cochrane, Mickey 1929 93 12 0.985
Mauer, Joe 2006 92 12 0.982
Kelly, King 1886 82 13 0.980
Bench, Johnny 1974 81 5 0.994
Foxx, Jimmie 1935 80 11 0.983
Mauer, Joe 2006 77 9 0.987
Fisk, Carlton 1977 73 10 0.989
Mauer, Joe 2006 72 7 0.990
Kelly, King 1886 72 5 0.994
Wilson, Dan 2002 68 7 0.980
Mauer, Joe 2006 62 8 0.991
McCarver, Tim 1967 62 10 0.981
Rodriguez, Ivan 1999 61 13 0.985
Clements, Jack 1895 59 7 0.981
Bench, Johnny 1969 56 3 0.996
Clements, Jack 1895 52 5 0.989
Kelly, King 1886 45 10 0.982
Rodriguez, Ivan 1998 37 8 0.988
Milligan, Jocko 1889 33 6 0.984
TOTAL
1901 220  
9/12/2014 7:05 PM
Posted by teaparty on 9/12/2014 5:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by zubinsum on 9/11/2014 9:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by teaparty on 9/11/2014 12:36:00 PM (view original):
But why does he make any errors at all? HoJo at SS w/ A+/D- 1.000, has only ever made an error for me if his fatigue slips below 100%.

His performace history shows 0 errors at short and a .999 fielding pct.

93 McLemore at 2B w/ A+/D 1.000, perf history 0 errors and 1.000.

BUT - 97 Charles Johnson at C w/ A+/A+/A+ 1.000 (zero real-life errors in 973 chances). His performance history shows 5 errors and .990 in 107 games and 583 chances.

I am not sure why he makes errors, only it is normal that he does in the sim.
Here is his performance history.

I wouldn't bother with FP because catchers are credited for a putout on Ks where there is almost no chance of an error.  Just look at errors and assists.  The data consistently shows a 1.00 FP catcher has about a 9% chance of an error when throwing the ball. 

Player # E A
58 Berra 10 5 56
03 Matheny 7 3 46
46 Rosar 2 4 70
97 Johnson 27 5 49
94 Leyritz 2 3 33
08 Ianetta 1 1 16
08 Inge 6 3 40
08 Snyder 2 5 43
97 Hoiles 1 3 22
56 Howard 79 3 37
57 Berberet 4 3 32
01 Wooten 299 2 19





Yes, it is normal for 1.000 fp catchers to make errors in the SIM (while at 100%), but not for other positions: that's what I'm questioning.

There may be a correlation between assists and throwing errors, but since A+ arms get their assists with a fraction of the throws to second base on steal attempts, they would actually be making errors on a much higher percentage of their throws.

i.e. A+ arm throws out 44 of 100 base stealers, but makes 4 throwing errors (9% of assists). That's one error every 25 throws to second.
D- arm throws out 44 of 280 base stealers, makes 4 throwing errors (9% of assists). That's one error every 75 throws to second.
Good point about SBAs.  I think it basically destroys my theory.  
9/12/2014 8:48 PM
Perhaps the 1.000 FLD doesn't apply to SBA and pickoffs because they aren't considered a "normal" PA.
9/13/2014 12:30 PM
Note that I also had 56 Elston Howard on my team, an A+ / 1.000 real-life fielder.  He made one error - a non-throwing error while at 100%.  Upon further review, when I click on Howard's stats, it shows one error, but zero throwing errors.  But, when I look at the box score, I see Howard threw away a pick off attempt.

So overall, my two 1.000 fielding catchers with A+ arms had zero pick-offs, but threw the ball away four times on pick-off attempts, plus threw the ball away twice on two SBAs.
9/19/2014 11:11 AM (edited)
Posted by teaparty on 9/14/2014 9:14:00 PM (view original):
Note that I also had 56 Elston Howard on my team, an A+ / 1.000 real-life fielder.  He made one error - a non-throwing error while at 100%.  Upon further review, when I click on Howard's stats, it shows one error, but zero throwing errors.  But, when I look at the box score, I see Howard through away a pick off attempt.

So overall, my two 1.000 fielding catchers with A+ arms had zero pick-offs, but threw the ball away four times on pick-off attempts, plus threw the ball away twice on two SBAs.

Ok...so what about the theory that the sim uses part of the fielding percentage/range of your 1B or 2B/SS (whoever is covering) as part of the calculation for throwing errors for a C. We know that the defense of the 1B can negatively affect the throws of your infielders, so what if this is also the case on pickoff attempts and CS attempts since someone has to actually catch the throw from your catcher. If your 1B misses or drops the throw due to his bad defense, the error might still be scored as a throwing error to  your catcher.

What are the defensive ratings of your 1B, 2B/SS?
9/15/2014 10:10 AM
1B = D/D+, 2B = A-/D, SS = A+/D+
9/16/2014 5:21 AM
Posted by teaparty on 9/16/2014 5:21:00 AM (view original):
1B = D/D+, 2B = A-/D, SS = A+/D+
Zero way to prove this, but your worst defender is at 1B and that is where the most throwing errors have occurred (assuming the 4 throwaways on pickoffs were to 1B). With the range of your MIF being D and D+, I wonder if the sim is essentially giving them "-" like plays to cover 2b on the throws on the 2 throwing errors and thus the errors are going to the catcher?

It's a thought. The only way to test it would be to have really quality defense at 1B and range up the middle and see if the same catchers still have the same error rates.
9/16/2014 9:24 AM
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