Posted by Got_Worms on 7/17/2014 10:40:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/17/2014 8:33:00 AM (view original):
Longoria and Hernandez seem to be guys who'll likely finish where they started.   Unless Tampa/Seattle start doing the fire sales they're known for.   For whatever reason, I see FH getting moved before TB would move Longoria.

Brett and Young aren't forgotten.   They were just from a different era. 

The Mariners don't really do fire sales, we just trade our top prospects for mediocre, washed up veterans.

I guess I was thinking Ichiro and Griffey.   They seemed like a guys who'd finish in Seattle.   Although, to be fair, maybe both of them sort of forced their way out.

Trading Randy Johnson to the Astros wasn't really a fire sale but they did it to spite him and his demands for a long term deal.  Some people think this was a great trade for Seattle since we got Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen, and John Halama.  I disagree and think we should've received much more in return.  The Astros only had him for the last half of 1998 and then he went on to win 4 straight Cy Young's & a World Series MVP with the Diamondbacks.

Arizona got the best of that deal!

So really, you thought Verlander was worth mentioning?  You think he's got a snowball's chance in hell of being a HOF?  His arm looks more and more shot, and right now he's sitting on 145 career victories.  I don't see it happening for him.

No, Verlander won't make the hall. He isn't good enough and it doesn't look like he'll get better. I don't think Longoria has a great chance, either.

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/17/2014 12:01:00 PM (view original):
So really, you thought Verlander was worth mentioning?  You think he's got a snowball's chance in hell of being a HOF?  His arm looks more and more shot, and right now he's sitting on 145 career victories.  I don't see it happening for him.

Don't know.   I don't think he's missed any starts and he's signed for a long time.   He could be Mike Hampton or maybe he's an average/above average pitcher for 5 more years.   As long as he pitches, he's going to finish with more than 200 wins.  I thought he'd won 2 CY but I was mistaken.   In the diluted HOF, 200+ wins and 2 CY would likely be good enough.

I'm not sure anyone we've listed is HOF material.    Rollins is the only one nearing the end and I don't think he's shoo-in HOF.   Pedroia?  Could be my Red Sux hate but I don't see that.   Hernandez?  Long way to go.   Longoria/Wright?  Not right now. 

Two from St. Louis:

Yadier Molina:  A few more years as a top-tier backstop (as long as his bat doesn't disappear) and I can see him having a case for the HOF.

Adam Wainwright (putting the recent All-Star Game debacle on the back-burner for now):  He's 32 now with 111 wins - I'd consider him a longshot right now but if he can continue for several more years at the pace he's on now, he'll have a great case to make.

Of course, both of them already have two W.S. rings on their resume and hopefully they'll add a few more in the future...

I'd also say Troy Tulowitzki but the trade rumors seem to be rampant with him.

Do you think Jimmy Rollins has a better HOF case than Chase Utley?

Never even considered Molina or Wainwright as HOF candidates.  I suppose a case could be made for Molina, as a catcher who can hit, but Wainwright?  He's going to have to be top of the league in wins for another 5 seasons to reach 200.   Are there any non-RP 199 or less HOF pitchers?

Rollins vs Utley.   Rollins has a MVP and plays SS so I think that puts him in the HOF discussion.   I've never thought of Utley has a HOFer and I see no reason why I should.

Are there any non-RP 199 or less HOF pitchers?

Koufax immediately comes to mind, but he was super-elite for the second half of his career.  Wainwright doesn't come close,

And if I were to hazard a guess, once Molina stops hitting, he'll become a journeyman defensive catcher specialist bouncing from team to team.  Think: Ivan Rodriguez, in his last couple of seasons.

Just looked up stats for Rollins & Utley and neither of them are HOF material. Rollins is a .268 career hitter and Utley's last 3 years are gross.

Posted by tecwrg on 7/17/2014 2:28:00 PM (view original):
Are there any non-RP 199 or less HOF pitchers?

Koufax immediately comes to mind, but he was super-elite for the second half of his career.  Wainwright doesn't come close,

I just eyeballed it.  Looks like Koufax is the only one to be voted in.

Wainwright is not the next Koufax. 

Posted by Got_Worms on 7/17/2014 2:13:00 PM (view original):
I'd also say Troy Tulowitzki but the trade rumors seem to be rampant with him.

Do you think Jimmy Rollins has a better HOF case than Chase Utley?

Utley >> Rollins, but I do think Rollins ends up getting more HOF consideration due to being a SS and the length of his career.

Utley was always going to need a lot to go right with his career to build a HOF resume since he didn't become an everyday starter until he was 26, and it didn't happen for it.  If his knees don't cut his peak short, he could have had that kind of trajectory, but at this point his peak was too short and his career is also going to be pretty short by the standards of HOF candidates.

Of the young guys....I'd say Trout, Puig and Harper have shots.  All 3 play for big market teams.  So, should they have shots to do it.

Old guys....Todd Helton.  

If McCutchen stays in Pitt. 

Pedroia will stay in Boston.  He should make it.  He'll end up with +2000 hits with a ROY, MVP and a few GG's.

I don't see any of them finishing where they started.

I dismissed Helton/Tulo because of Coors Field.   There's a bias against numbers put up there.

McCuthchen staying in Pitt seems highly unlikely.