Confessions of a GD newbie Topic

I was thinking of writing something up anyway, and then Oriole's new post kind of forced my hand. There's been alot of talk about dumbing down the game to "encourage" new players to sign up and stick with the game.....well, thats exactly what I am. I started playing GD back in December I think, after getting a code in my email for a free team. Since then, I've actually stuck around, but feel like this might be the appropriate time to "voice" some frustrations and give everyone some insight as to what a new player goes through.

1) Unbeknownst to me at the time, there was no way I could win in my first season. This game basically boils down to 3 things (in this order I believe), skill of players, knowledge of formations, and a smidge of coaching prowess. Starting a team from scratch, I had no where near the quality of players on my team to compete with others and I didn't even know it at the time. It really isnt a whole lot of fun getting whooped every week even if you didn't pay for it.

2) Your tutorial is fairly weak. God bless some of the posts on the forums, otherwise I would be completely lost. My first season I recruited a total of TWO players, one of which was a kicker. It was a complete waste of time for me to recruit and would eventually cost me a season essentially. I'll take this time to give a thank you to caesari  and his GD guide to the game post, for without it, I would of been gone a long time ago.

3) Game planning and what the heck I was doing was basically pointless. I again was clueless....running stupid formations, no direction for my team, used a practice schedule picked by WIS that had no formation practice. I just didn't know. Again, a wasted a season.

4) Ratings for players still has me confused more that I want to admit. I just recruited a player that was a 49 ILB per WIS and 39 ILB per GUESS. I really dont know which one is correct. But here's the thing, if GUESS is correct, why are your formulas to rate players wrong....why am I using essentially misinformation to build my team???

5) Vision, how the heck am I going to even get to recruit players to compete if I cannot even see them. Think about that for a second. New player comes in, says ok, let me try this. It may take him 6-8 seasons to even get his vision high enough to see better players and have them become starters (ie, jr's sr's). CRAZY

The game is just intrinsically stacked against new players, and this isn't a bad thing. There is just not enough information on how to play this game when you start. You are basically on your own in order to figure it out. On top of that, its extremely likely your players aren't even good enough to compete and it may take you a few seasons to just have the opportunity to recruit them. Some may say, "Of course you have to figure it out, we all did." And they would be correct. But most of those people who figured all this out were competing against others who also had no knowledge of this "system." That is no longer the case, newbies are competing against players who know the ins and outs of the system so you essentially created 2 strikes for new players to overcome, 1) a significantly weaker team and 2) not enough knowledge to compete and grow effectively. To throw new members into a game like this, is essentially feeding them to the lions. You need to get alot more information in the hands of new players so than can begin to compete

I am a production manager by day, so I know the value of being part of the problem, so I also want to be part of the solution. I'm not here to just *****. One piece of information I would like you to look at is the retention rates of all those free seasons handed out. How many new players did you get off of that.....how many of them signed up for 1,2,5 seasons? I'm guessing pretty low. So....here are my suggestions:

A) Keep doing what you are doing. If you need to fix bugs, tweak interfaces...go for it. It makes the game better for everyone.

B) There is no need to change the way D3 works unless you want to obliterate it. If you want to shrink the worlds, hey great. Figure out a fair way to do it so people dont get penalized and do it. 3 divisions (I, IAA, II) or combine worlds.....go for it, its your prerogative.

C) Get the right information into peoples hands. I dont care if you just link posts in the tutorial. The point will be this is essentially "WIS approved" information....and that is whats important. I sincerely cannot stress this enough. I'm still a little miffed a recruited a LB that may be garbage essentially based off your information. Show them how to recruit, give them ideas on how to build playbooks (and I mean real ideas), and give them the knowledge to put together appropriate practice plans. There is better information on the forums than you provide.

D) Incentivize the new players. The root of this is this game is its a dynasty game. It is going to take multiple seasons to be proficient at this, to compete at this. No matter what level you are on. D3, D2.....etc, it doesnt matter. So give them a carrot. How about a buy 5 seasons, get 2 free for new players. Or maybe a free season if they win their division, conference, make the final 8, jump up in levels.....etc. Give them a reason to stay, another carrot other than a NC and personal satisfaction. This works, look no further than the games on your phone. Start easy, get people hooked, make them pay for upgrades/time/lives...etc. THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT. Think about it, no matter when they make the jump, they are still going to be behind the 8ball so to speak, give them the incentive to stay. You give rewards for success, just nothing when people are starting out essentially.

I really cant put all my frustrations into words. I'm sure there were more, but this was a start. And mine were probably muted since I have played countless Sim baseball seasons. I know how this works. But you know who your new players are, and the ones who stayed when you "recruited." Talk to them, get their ideas. Listen to the customer/consumer/employee.....they are usually right.

I hope this gets read/helps.

George


4/24/2014 10:35 AM
Good thoughts, George.
4/24/2014 11:20 AM
Excellent post George.  As the author of the GUESS formulas, I can tell you that the big difference in ILB ratings is that WIS values STR much higher than the GUESS numbers, and GUESS puts much more emphasis on GI than the WIS formula.  Which is "correct?"  In a sense, neither is, because (a) what makes a player "good" depends a lot on how they are used, and (b) it's extremely unclear what factors really go into determining results.  Which of course just reiterates your point "C"
4/24/2014 12:08 PM
George's post has made more sense than almost anything else regarding the current 'situation'. I'm just experiencing the same thing in HD, have a free season so thought I'd give it a go (0-15 so far!) won't stay but never planned to but if no one had managed my expectations I'd have given up straight away. Been playing GD a while now and consider myself reasonably successful so should be able to master HD as well. However I'm looking at HD with the same eyes as George is looking at GD and boy is it tough, no one place to get a handle on what to do.

The part of the game (GD) that is most enjoyable is a bit of banter with other coaches and gleaning nuggets from the better players and sharing observations in an effort to help newbies. Now if we're all in DII who is left in DIII to help the newbies?
4/24/2014 12:47 PM
Good post george. I think your feeling are shared by many people.
4/24/2014 1:31 PM
Well said
4/24/2014 6:04 PM
George, I think you nailed it.  I will add one little bit of info that might not help your frustrations, but might make you feel better.  When 3.0 launched, many (if not all) veteran coaches were/are in the same boat as you regarding actual game play.  Of course those coaches already had a lot of knowledge regarding how to recruit, etc, etc.  But there has been almost ZERO information from WIS regarding how this new version actually plays.  We have asked for more information on how some things actually work in this engine.  Many have suggested a tutorial, or updates to the existing FAQ, etc.  

It is definitely not an easy game to start playing and win consistently.  It takes a while.  That part is not at all clear to a new coach who is just starting out.
4/24/2014 6:14 PM
Great post.  A "game guide" would go much further in alleviating the frustrations of new coaches (and veteran ones) than changing the way Div 3 operates ever would. 
4/24/2014 9:27 PM (edited)
Thanks for the plug, but I must give all the credit to the community of coaches, especially yatzr, bhazlewood, and damauler, for the info there and for GUESS. The first two have made the game infinitely better, and the latter provided a great recruiting guide that got many on their path to victory.

Well written post.
4/24/2014 7:06 PM
damauler's manifesto is epic. But kudos to you also, caesari, for getting it back out there with a thread that I read repeatedly to learn this game at the start. And yes, yatzr and bhazlewood have done wonders to help make this a more enjoyable and understandable game. IMO they are the Yoda's of GD. My thanks to all of you.

caesari's thread that I mentioned:

http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?TopicID=451760&Page=1&TopicsTimeframe=30
4/24/2014 7:24 PM (edited)
Confessions of a GD newbie Topic

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