Not trying to get into an argument. The amount of space dedicated to writing about it and yet so many questions remaining unanswered or unanswerable speaks for itself.

If anyone has any insight to shed some light on this situation, I'd be more than happy to hear it. Right now I've put 10+ STs on guys with no discernible impact, and even a D-II guy (albeit a good one) hasn't put me on his list even though two schools are that are farther away and I doubt have put in as much effort. You would have thought a few would come good at least.

Maybe you dont have the prestige to ever pull him down

So guys would rather play for no one? Some of these guys have no offers.

I've seen teams with similar prestige that have pulled down players. So...I don't know.

Saw your message a few pages back by the way. I know what you mean. I'm not at all sure I'm staying, just wanted to try to have some fun with my last season since I already paid for it. So far, it's been pretty far from fun.

Did you initially send a phone call or coach call and get the backup message indicating that the player can be pulled down? If you didn't get that message then you will never be able to pull him down, no matter how much effort you put in. If you did get that message its likely that another school is also putting in effort as one of the original replies mentioned. If you would like to sitemail me I would be happy to discuss the details since we aren't in the same world.

If you aren't on his considering list, you haven't pulled him down. The signal is showing up on the recruits page.

I believe this is false.  That's what *usually* happens when the recruit is undecided, but I think that's a very common misunderstanding.  Someone else mentioned using some huge number of SVs and never cracking the list.  I can almost guarantee that he was pulled down long before 40 SVs or whatever.  You just couldn't get enough effort locked in by bombarding with SVs.

imo "pulled down" = "recruitable"..in other words, he will start accepting HVs/promises/non-SV actions.  The really tricky part of that is when another school, lets say a D2 sim with a very tight message, is in the mix.  You can probably pull him down with 10-15 SVs like normal.  The problem is he can also still reject HVs because you're so far behind, which is separate from the pulldown question, but confuses the issue.

I've taken lots of players from D2 sims, some of which were pulled down.  What I do is start bombing with single HVs to confirm they're "recruitable".  For example, maybe I send 10 SVs+offer to start out..not considering me.  Next cycle I might send 2-3 more SVs+ 5 HVs broken into singles.  If he rejects all HVs, I'll do that again and again until he accepts the HVs.  That's the only signal that counts imo.

ETA:  this was written from a D3 perspective and assumes you received a backup message.

I'll start with noone is trying to argue with you (and since this is text, interpret my tone as a non snippy one). People in this thread so far just seem to be asking what in fact you are looking for. Don't come off so negatively if you disagree or don't get the answer you're looking for. You appear to have given up before you've even gotten started. If you disagree with the answer, ignore or discuss. If its not the answer you wanted or its not clear, ask them to clarify, be more specific in your question, or reword the question.

Back on topic:

I have to agree with mully. you have C prestige which is pretty low. More than likely the other guys have higher prestige. It is not easy to pull a recruit or even get decent drop downs with a C prestige. 

Also, there are just some guys you can't pull down and/or won't drop down (this is also usually related to prestige. If your initial message to the guy said something like there is no chance, then you need to move on).  Also, just because someone said the usual amount is 10 ST's, does not mean it will be 10 for every recruit, especially at a C prestige. In many cases, it might be 20 or 30 (usually at the higher levels). Other cases it might be 5. No number of ST's will change the responses you get until you hit the magic number that he has officially removed the backup label off of you. Highly rated guys are going to be harder to pull down and more competition means he has more choices, so he doesn't need to rush into a decision to drop down for you which is why more competition might make it harder. Like you said, it is a guessing game, but not completely. If you pay attention to things like how many open scholarships does this other coach have open, how many players are considering him, how many battles is he in, is he in a good conference, WOTS, etc. These kinds of things give you an idea of how much the other guy is working with and maybe how much he might have spent. You never know how much a guy has put into one player unless he tells you (which should not be shared until after recruiting). Some guys might have 4 open scholarships and use the entire total to get 1 or 2 players and take some walkons.

Recruiting in real life is a guessing game. A recruit is not officially committed anywhere until he signs the papers. Add to that, this is not real life, there's only so much that you can put into computer programming. Pay attention to the WOTS in the players profile (if you did FSS).

As far as specific messages, pretty much you are backup until you are not a backup. If anywhere in the message (coach call, ST, phone call, etc) it says he is looking at his better options or that you are a backup, then you are. If it says anything different (with exception to the obvious he just doesn't like you or stop calling him), more than likely you are not a backup and you can recruit freely with HV or CV etc. If it says something to the effect of hes not sold or he has to visit another school or someone else beat us to him you are not a backup, but you are not leading or even being considered yet. As long as it does not specifically tell you he is looking at better options or that you are a backup.

If you have a message specifically that you are not sure about, put it in the thread and someone can tell you what it means. I'm sure someone probably has a link to another thread that specifically tells you what each message means.

Posted by theploww on 4/24/2014 11:48:00 AM (view original):
Did you initially send a phone call or coach call and get the backup message indicating that the player can be pulled down? If you didn't get that message then you will never be able to pull him down, no matter how much effort you put in. If you did get that message its likely that another school is also putting in effort as one of the original replies mentioned. If you would like to sitemail me I would be happy to discuss the details since we aren't in the same world.

Yes indeed I did send the call. Good question, that would be pretty important if I hdn't.

I wish I could sitemail you. The admins disabled my sitemail and apparently even though I'm back on forums, I'm still banned from it? Who knows.

Posted by killbatman on 4/24/2014 11:54:00 AM (view original):

If you aren't on his considering list, you haven't pulled him down. The signal is showing up on the recruits page.

I believe this is false.  That's what *usually* happens when the recruit is undecided, but I think that's a very common misunderstanding.  Someone else mentioned using some huge number of SVs and never cracking the list.  I can almost guarantee that he was pulled down long before 40 SVs or whatever.  You just couldn't get enough effort locked in by bombarding with SVs.

imo "pulled down" = "recruitable"..in other words, he will start accepting HVs/promises/non-SV actions.  The really tricky part of that is when another school, lets say a D2 sim with a very tight message, is in the mix.  You can probably pull him down with 10-15 SVs like normal.  The problem is he can also still reject HVs because you're so far behind, which is separate from the pulldown question, but confuses the issue.

I've taken lots of players from D2 sims, some of which were pulled down.  What I do is start bombing with single HVs to confirm they're "recruitable".  For example, maybe I send 10 SVs+offer to start out..not considering me.  Next cycle I might send 2-3 more SVs+ 5 HVs broken into singles.  If he rejects all HVs, I'll do that again and again until he accepts the HVs.  That's the only signal that counts imo.

ETA:  this was written from a D3 perspective and assumes you received a backup message.

Yeah that's what I don't know, howy ou know when he'll start accepting HVs and the link. I guess your answer would be, send an HV but I thought you had to pay for those even if they were rejected.

I'm in D2, btu I imagine the deal is pretty similar to your D3 perspective.

You generally (always?) get your money back from rejected HVs.  I think the SV threshold for a D2 team reaching up might be a little higher than what I described, but yeah otherwise should be similar.

Also, just from personal observation..I think the SV messages clue you in a little when you're getting close.  I find that if I send SVs and get a mix of messages that indicate D2 and D3 (again written from a D3 team's perspective), it seems to mean he's *close* to being pulled down.  Real example of a D3 team pulling down a local player from the D1 search:

undecided player, got backup message 1st cycle
2nd cycle sent 15 SVs+offer..still undecided..mix of D2 and D3 messages in the SVs
3rd cycle sent 1 more SV+2 HVs (thinking maybe he was already pulled down at this point)..rejected HVs, still undecided
4th cycle sent 2 more SVs (18 total now) + 1 HV..rejected HV, now considering me.

I've been getting messages like that from the start...mentioning multiple levels.

Thanks for the effort so far, folks.

Posted by asher413 on 4/24/2014 10:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/24/2014 2:10:00 AM (view original):
How do you know when you have successfully pulled down a recruit to where you can recruit him? For all the threads and posts about recruiting on the board that I've looked at, I don't think I've ever seen the answer to that question.

For my attempt at clarity:
Pull down is when you've used Scouting visits (and a schollie) to have a recruit who gives you the backup message consider you.  This is to speed up the process on drop down (but has it's obvious risks).   You know you've pulled down when you're on the considering list or get a "I wish I could sign"-type message.
Drop down is when a recruit gives you the backup message, and you wait.  In that case, you'll get a message (IFF you've contacted him prior) saying "I didn't get the love I wanted" or "I thought you meant basket-weaving" or a message from your AD/AC saying "remember so- and -so"... then you can recruit them as if they are in your division (and will show up in your search accordingly)

Ashers clarity seems to be 99% true.... KB you sparked my interest saying its possible my player could have dropped or " pulled down" without me realizing... please elaborate, also im going to add I quit putting in effort the day of signing I was at about 45 Scouts. It wasnt till the next day I randomly showed up on his considering list with the D2 but didnt have enough juice to grab him at that point. My understanding of your comment means sometimes a recruit and become "recruitable" when you havent necessarily got an in your face sign that he is recruitable.... for instance around 30 Scouts their were reports he was looking up in the stands to see us.. One last clarification... do Scouts still work in 5's? The word few was tossed around

halfa, it's entirely possible I just haven't come across it yet..but I've done this stuff a LOT and I've never run into a situation where I needed more than about 20 SVs at D3.  I've heard similar stories to yours, and I think my explanation fits.

sometimes a recruit becomes "recruitable" when you havent necessarily got an in your face sign that he is recruitable

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying.  The "looking in the stands" message is a "recruitable" message, and either means you're close or he's already pulled down.  I suspect that happened before 30 SVs, but again that's just based on me not personally ever seeing it take that many.  In your situation, I would've bombed with singles of HVs+2-3 more SVs every cycle after I had already done about 15 SVs.

Not exactly sure what you're asking with the very last bit.  I prefer increments of 2-3 SVs so as not to overshoot and waste money.

Posted by killbatman on 4/24/2014 12:29:00 PM (view original):
halfa, it's entirely possible I just haven't come across it yet..but I've done this stuff a LOT and I've never run into a situation where I needed more than about 20 SVs at D3.  I've heard similar stories to yours, and I think my explanation fits.

sometimes a recruit becomes "recruitable" when you havent necessarily got an in your face sign that he is recruitable

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying.  The "looking in the stands" message is a "recruitable" message, and either means you're close or he's already pulled down.  I suspect that happened before 30 SVs, but again that's just based on me not personally ever seeing it take that many.  In your situation, I would've bombed with singles of HVs+2-3 more SVs every cycle after I had already done about 15 SVs.

Not exactly sure what you're asking with the very last bit.  I prefer increments of 2-3 SVs so as not to overshoot and waste money.

  

I don't know about that.  There may be some very small window where a recruit is pulled down but not considering but if it is there it is small.   I know it took me 36 SV's to pull down a guy a few seasons ago and although I don't recall the exact #, I know I looked at the D2 list  after about 20ish and he still  wasn't on it.

Ive heard that SV's work in groups of 5