All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeagues LIVE > Squeeze Play Debate Once Again
12/10/2013 11:08 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 12/5/2013 1:23:00 AM (view original):
Posted by sjh0825 on 12/4/2013 5:36:00 PM (view original):
??? sounds like some one who doesn't like bullying.  yep, it is a great attitude.
It's really laughable to pay lip service to being "anti-bullying" but in the same paragraph suggest that everyone who disagrees with you lives in their mom's basement and imply that you'd love to fight them if you could.
Actually Dahs it was me who said that not sj...and i guess you really did paraphrase and not read my actual quote.  I did not say at all that i am anti-bullying and then suggest that everyone who disagrees with me lives in thier moms basement and id like to fight them.  It has nothing to do with agreeing with me, it is the insults and fbombs and such that were dropped in LIVE (this happened to me personally in the past, i corrected the situation by blocking that person) The comments about living in Moms basement and not taking the time to search for them ect were toungue in cheek and thought it was evident....If i offended you i sincerely apologize.  ;)
12/11/2013 12:28 AM
Posted by blaisebbss8 on 12/10/2013 9:41:00 PM (view original):
I agree about the non-infield in as well. If the infield is in I'm not bunting. If it isn't in, I feel that it is fair game because if I don't bunt there's a good chance I ground into a DP if I don't strike out.
I should clairify, I am only talking about pitchers here, not Nap Lajoie.
12/11/2013 1:58 AM
Posted by joshkvt on 12/10/2013 9:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gonzos on 12/10/2013 9:19:00 PM (view original):
your $12.95 is for your team.

bunting the guy from 3rd fails all the time...i only do it with pitchers.

but i'm not gonna hit into a DP to keep you from taking your ball and going home.
I have never said a word against bunting with pitchers or lousy, Belanger-type hitters. I get upset when someone
- brings a pitcher in to hit for his #3 batter to bunt
- brings a pitcher with 50+ at-bats in to pinch-bunt for a pitcher with fewer than 50 at-bats
- pinch-hits Elmer Steele for Tris Speaker
- uses Ted Lilly as a pinch-hitter with Strawberry on the bench
- leaves the pitcher in to bunt with Loretta on the bench and then relieves the pitcher on the mound before the next half-inning
- bunts with the plodding cleanup hitter up — Torre, Griffey Sr., Piniella

All examples 100% real.
agree
12/11/2013 5:57 AM (edited)
Posted by joshkvt on 12/10/2013 10:47:00 PM (view original):
If you bunted home a run against me with Arky Vaughan I'd have a fit also. Actually, I'd just leave and let the remaining games sim. If I don't want Arky to hit in the 8th, I'd probably pinch-hit for him. If George Scott is at first, I'd run for Scott and then hit and run. Problem is everyone has a valid self-interest point, and WIS isn't going to fix it any time soon. You want to bunt to avoid a DP; dahs, szcz and I would rather take the chance of a DP rather than (take your pick… exploit a flaw, do whatever is needed to win, tick off other owners, whatever). Knowing that people get angry about it, those who bunt should not be surprised when people, um, get angry about it.

And if by "that is a form of IF in" you mean letting the game sim instead of playing live, that's exactly my point. If the theory is that the bunt is fair game when the IF is not in, I can either let the games sim most of the time or cut back from 20 or so live teams at a time to 4 or 5 so I can pay attention to every at-bat. I don't think anyone trying to fill leagues wants me to cut back to 4 or 5 teams, but I could be mistaken. There is, after all, a first time for everything. 
no prob josh.  We're not going to agree on everything.  All those other things I agree with you. As mentioned above too bad there isn't a bunt rating on here. Still no one tells me why a theme rule to not suicide squeeze with infield in wouldn't be a fair compromise.  It seems some who don't like the suicide squeeze don't really like infield in, which is a big part of baseball (as is the bunt).   I had a link above that shows the squeeze rarely totally fails and it is used about once each 4 to 6 games in real life.  i think the one thing that it also shows is pitchers rarely bring the run home with the bunt (but the infield is always in).  And for the record, I've squeezed bunted with infield in almost never.   good luck.  
12/11/2013 6:00 AM
Oh, Josh one more question.  How would a newbie know the difference in bunting with Belanger vs Torre?  (you mention one is ok one isnt)  We have been around and I remember bunt ratings with strat-o-matic.   A  20 something would probably just think it's a strategy and he's seen it in mlb.  
12/11/2013 8:08 AM
I don't think most players would bunt with Torre up and anyone other than a McGee/Wilson type at third unless they know of the programming flaw. In any case, if it's a new player — or new user ID — I explain why some people hate the tactic. The difference between doing it with Belanger and Torre is that one's a good hitter and the other isn't.
12/11/2013 10:27 AM (edited)
and for the record, I've probably suicide squeezed about 4 times in 2 years.  It's just an interesting debate and i couldn't believe the outrageous backlash.  But if IF is back with a weak hitter or a pitcher I still might.  Don't abuse it, but don't abuse the gentlemen's agreement and not defend it.
12/19/2013 6:08 PM
So, it's the third inning and my opponent is up 4-1, has a runner on third, one out, dick groat up.
I leave the infield back, he squeezes, the run scores.

I figure, okay, fair game.

Next game, I'm down by a run in the bottom of the 7th, get a one out triple. He leaves the infield back, I squeeze. Runner out at home.

Go figure.
12/20/2013 8:30 PM
nothing is ever a sure thing.  I was in a world series recently, bases loaded no out, infield back.  I didn't bunt because I didn't want the hassle.  It turned out poorly.  And he had it in in other situations, but wanted the double play there. 
12/26/2013 7:42 PM
So the ONE time I squeeze in years is with the pitcher up and runners on corners and 1 out, the squeeze is successful and I explain that I am sick of grounding into a double play with the pitcher at bat, and my opponent beeyotches out of the game without saying a word. Nothing surprises me anymore.

If this cheapass site doesn't want to fix what has been broken for years, it's not my problem. Anyway, the squeeze here, much like in real baseball, is not always successful.
12/26/2013 11:51 PM (edited)
In real baseball the suicide squeeze is just about obsolete, it is rarely used anymore. And with the proposed rule changes barring a runner from mowing down the catcher, it will be used even less. 

So maybe what we need is one more selection button in the options menu. Where the home team can select suicide squeezing allowed or not. Just as we do for game speed and substitute duration.
12/27/2013 12:17 PM
What I forgot to mention was that the safety squeeze is very much alive and that this site should assume that with runners on the corners. Of course with bases loaded there is no safety squeeze and you just bunt at your own risk with a force at every base.
1/3/2014 11:37 PM
Here's a first … because I got mad about a squeeze by Pete Rose (with the IF in, FWIW) I've been outed by quagmire as a sore loser. Seeing as I've lost more Live games than anyone else who plays, I didn't realize I was sore so often. Learn something new every day.
1/4/2014 7:59 AM
Posted by joshkvt on 1/3/2014 11:37:00 PM (view original):
Here's a first … because I got mad about a squeeze by Pete Rose (with the IF in, FWIW) I've been outed by quagmire as a sore loser. Seeing as I've lost more Live games than anyone else who plays, I didn't realize I was sore so often. Learn something new every day.
We knew it was only a matter of time josh before you'd be "outed".
1/4/2014 2:33 PM
I've gotten back into live leagues after a very long hiatus, and skimmed this thread and have largely been avoiding squeezing because of that, I think I've only attempted it with pitchers, is even doing it with pitchers going too far?'

While I'm sure you guys are right that it works too well (I haven't paid close enough attention to have an informed opinion), I think if you're going to outlaw/restrict it in private leagues, then you should put something in the rules explicitly saying that squeezing isn't allowed. There seem to be enough dissenters in this thread that a gentleman's agreement isn't going to work. I'll defer to the majority of people here and not do it, but I don't think it's right to berate people for doing it unless they've clearly been told they shouldn't do it when signing up for the league.
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