All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeagues LIVE > Squeeze Play Debate Once Again
11/27/2013 7:51 PM
Don't give a damn if you pay your 12.95 and think it is ok to squeeze. It is bullshit. It is a flaw in the system. This isn't Xbox here. If you want to play video games do so.
This has come up before but I wont play owners who squeeze. I realize this is What If Sports but what if every time a man is on 3rd they bunted in real life. Doesn't happen and the reason is it would not be successful 99%of the time like it is in live. Most pitchers (for some reason some owners seem to think it is ok because a pitcher is at the plate?) are not capable of pulling off a suicide squeeze play.
So I say BULLSHIT and Happy Thanksgiving to the live owners who don't take an advantage in the glitch. to the others <profanity>piss</profanity> off!
11/27/2013 8:51 PM
Tell us how you really feel steve....lmao...in my 8 yrs here (damn i can't believe its been that long) i have realized that there are very few that actually do not use the squeeze. i have heard the same bs " i paid my money and will do what i want" the supposed update what was it a couple years ago? Did almost nothing to fix it. what ****** me off is the squeeze is nearly automatic but a runner rarley scores from 3rx on a fly ball that isnt a " shallow fly to the OF". Oh well i wont do it personally and will play the cheating ba****ds that abuse it and just entertain myself by berating them during the game. anyway my 2 cents...Happy Thanksgiving from Tennessee y'all!
11/27/2013 10:46 PM
soxyanks, I respectfully disagree. I have a list of about 25 owners I've encountered in my seven years here who bunt, and find that the majority do not use it (I don't include bunts by the pitcher or Belanger-type hitters, just blatant capitalizing on the programming flaw that has the runner go from third every time and score far too often). I saw a new one a week or so ago when someone pinch hit for his pitcher with Kevin Brown (who had more than 50 AB, replacing a pitcher who did not) to squeeze in the tying run, with several solid hitters sitting on his bench. I agree with szcz that it's BS. If someone wants to win a pretend baseball game that badly there's not much to do abut it other than decline to play the games live.
11/27/2013 11:01 PM
Squeezing just isn't fun. Though I do it with the pitcher because it seems plausible. I'm not even gonna do that anymore actually, it really wouldn't be very successful to do it everytime in real life.

How bout a "no bunters" list so we know who to play, etc.?
11/28/2013 1:02 AM
Josh
Im happy to see i underestimated the number...a "no squeezers list" would be fine...i for one bunt with my pitcher with men on 1st or 2nd and less than 2 outs....
11/28/2013 5:14 AM
thats fine to advance the runners. I think the issue is with a runner on third. They need to figure a way to be able to bunt with runners on 1st and 3rd and be able to hold runner at third. This is more realistic  as it happens when the situation calls for it. Or increase the success rate of having inf in when bunt occurs. Seems to work when you swing away.
Happy turkey day all
cya live after work sometime today
11/28/2013 12:20 PM
The problem I have with Not Squeezing is that I've noticed opposing managers who don't bring the infield in knowing that I won't squeeze.

For example: bottom of the ninth, bases loaded, one out. He leaves infield back. I should squeeze but don't because I know everybody is against it. I don't score. He wins in the tenth.
My opponent took advantage of the gentlemans agreement not to squeeze.

So, the way I see it: if you bring the infield in, as they would in real life, I honor the no squeeze rule.
But from now on, if you don't bring your infield in when anybody would and should,
Honey , expect your *** to get squeezed.
11/28/2013 1:24 PM (edited)
I  wish WIS would just fix this game design flaw.......

Maybe a present for all the LIVE guys....

11/28/2013 1:07 PM
That would be the ideal solution.
11/28/2013 1:18 PM
szcz, to answer part of your original question about why it's OK with a pitcher … There's a good argument for it being a necessary evil if the following two condiitions are BOTH met:
- It's too early to pinch hit
- There are runners at first and third with one out.
    In that specific situation, WIS has left us with a choice between bunting — with the runner at third for some bizarre reason never holding — or a high probability of an inning-ending double play. Logically, not opting for Hit & Run should leave the runner at third 90% of the time, but the engine treats every bunt with a runner at third as a Hit & Run/Suicide Squeeze. We do not have the option of a sacrifice bunt in that situation to move the runner to second and take the out. By far the two most likely options for the pitcher in this case are a strikeout or a double play. When it's past the 6th or 7th inning, though, there's no excuse for not using a pinch hitter in that situation. And by pinch-hitter, I don't mean Kevin Brown.

I'm as anti-bunt as anyone on the site with the possible exception of you and leeelci, but I can't fault an owner for choosing to keep his SP in the game and not hit into an inning-ending DP.
11/28/2013 3:21 PM
Posted by coyote522 on 11/28/2013 12:20:00 PM (view original):
The problem I have with Not Squeezing is that I've noticed opposing managers who don't bring the infield in knowing that I won't squeeze.

For example: bottom of the ninth, bases loaded, one out. He leaves infield back. I should squeeze but don't because I know everybody is against it. I don't score. He wins in the tenth.
My opponent took advantage of the gentlemans agreement not to squeeze.

So, the way I see it: if you bring the infield in, as they would in real life, I honor the no squeeze rule.
But from now on, if you don't bring your infield in when anybody would and should,
Honey , expect your *** to get squeezed.
I agree entirely with this.  Sure, you can argue that it's gaming the system to bunt.  But you're taking at least as much advantage of both the system and your opponent's decency if you don't bring the IF in in that situation.  It just feels ironic for guys to yell until they're blue in the face about how unrealistic it is to squeeze x amount and have it work x% of the time - which are almost always inflated numbers from the statistics I've run, by the way - and then somehow ignore how unrealistic it is to leave the infield back with a pitcher at bat in that situation.

Also, many of these same guys (as I've pointed out in the past) are the same dudes who draft guys with a high success rate stealing bases and then steal several times as many bags with them in LIVE games.  Is that realistic?  Would Chase Utley still be almost perfect if he attempted 130 steals?  I doubt it.  Dude was never all that fast, just read the pitcher well and picked his spots.
11/28/2013 6:12 PM
I use the sqeeze on occasion with actual bunters.  When I played in Josh's USA Fed. lg (I Had the Baltimore Bunters)tried to use it almost all the time and found myself successful about 60%  Yes I was keeping track.  I say go ahead and use it but be discretionary and use it only when you are in a situation that allows for it without pinchhitting say to keep a pitcher in the game.  Yes it's your money but other people's money is involved also, because without them you wouldn't be playing.
11/28/2013 8:02 PM (edited)
Squeezing and base stealing aren't in the same realm. I draft low attempt high percent base stealers every team, but guess what, I never attempt a steal off an A plus arm. Just not prudent. Some leagues I steal tons, others I don't. Just depends on the quality of catchers and also my base stealers. But I ALWAYS lead the league in base stealing percentage. Always. Thievery is a discipline whereas squeezing is a mindless drone way to ensure a run.
11/28/2013 8:37 PM
Posted by arvidjosef on 11/28/2013 8:02:00 PM (view original):
Squeezing and base stealing aren't in the same realm. I draft low attempt high percent base stealers every team, but guess what, I never attempt a steal off an A plus arm. Just not prudent. Some leagues I steal tons, others I don't. Just depends on the quality of catchers and also my base stealers. But I ALWAYS lead the league in base stealing percentage. Always. Thievery is a discipline whereas squeezing is a mindless drone way to ensure a run.
Damn...this is rare arvid...but i agree completely. ;)
11/28/2013 9:41 PM
Agree about the squeezing. When I first came back after a few years hiatus I didn't see the problem, but it is way too successful and so unrealistic. That being said, playing the IF back when the pitcher is up is also annoying and I wouldn't be upset in with squeezing in that situation.
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