All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > a brief history of the Fullcourt Press (-5)
7/6/2013 2:37 PM
Posted by gasparre on 7/6/2013 1:48:00 PM (view original):
With FCP -5, you're packing it in so no can drive the lane and you're also cutting off passes into the paint, but still have the benefit of double-teaming the shooter. hence, the lower 3pt%
But if you're "packing it in" the lane, how are you also pressing the ball?  Seems like it would have to be either/or.
7/6/2013 7:48 PM
Posted by emy1013 on 7/6/2013 2:37:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gasparre on 7/6/2013 1:48:00 PM (view original):
With FCP -5, you're packing it in so no can drive the lane and you're also cutting off passes into the paint, but still have the benefit of double-teaming the shooter. hence, the lower 3pt%
But if you're "packing it in" the lane, how are you also pressing the ball?  Seems like it would have to be either/or.

I would like to echo what emy said. If a defense could stop penetration into the lane, cut-off passing lanes, cause more turnovers and defend the perimeter then why would anyone play a different defensive set? If true then it seems very unrealistic to say the least.
7/6/2013 7:54 PM
If you can master recruiting for the press, it's by far the best defense.

That said, it's not like -5 means your guys are literally standing in the lane. It's still reasonable from a positional standpoint. 

Then again, as has been discussed for a long time, the press defense, as defined by WIS, is a ludicrous, unrealistic defense consisting of constant trapping. It shouldn't be a base defense. 
7/6/2013 9:33 PM
you're only pressing the ballhandler...leaves three other defenders to play off the ball. not difficult to conceptualize
7/6/2013 10:42 PM
I tend to foul a lot when I go to -5. I usually play at a fast pace with motion, and the press. When I go to -5, which I do on a team that plays inside a lot, I have to slow down, or my PGs usually foul out. I would not play -5 all the time for that reason.
7/7/2013 12:49 AM (edited)
Posted by gasparre on 7/6/2013 9:33:00 PM (view original):
you're only pressing the ballhandler...leaves three other defenders to play off the ball. not difficult to conceptualize
And when he makes the pass to another perimeter player, then who is pressuring the new ballhandler?  Certainly not the same two defenders as before, which means two of those guys that are "packing the lane" now have to jump out and press the new ballhandler.  So, even a squad that's a halfass passing team should absolutely eat a FCP -5 alive by getting tons of open looks.  Conceptually of course.
7/7/2013 3:05 PM
Posted by emy1013 on 7/7/2013 12:49:00 AM (view original):
Posted by gasparre on 7/6/2013 9:33:00 PM (view original):
you're only pressing the ballhandler...leaves three other defenders to play off the ball. not difficult to conceptualize
And when he makes the pass to another perimeter player, then who is pressuring the new ballhandler?  Certainly not the same two defenders as before, which means two of those guys that are "packing the lane" now have to jump out and press the new ballhandler.  So, even a squad that's a halfass passing team should absolutely eat a FCP -5 alive by getting tons of open looks.  Conceptually of course.
I think the packing the lane thing is a misconception of what a -5 is.  It's not like all 5 guys are in constant danger of getting a 3 second violation.
7/7/2013 3:33 PM
Posted by udm_mike on 7/7/2013 3:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 7/7/2013 12:49:00 AM (view original):
Posted by gasparre on 7/6/2013 9:33:00 PM (view original):
you're only pressing the ballhandler...leaves three other defenders to play off the ball. not difficult to conceptualize
And when he makes the pass to another perimeter player, then who is pressuring the new ballhandler?  Certainly not the same two defenders as before, which means two of those guys that are "packing the lane" now have to jump out and press the new ballhandler.  So, even a squad that's a halfass passing team should absolutely eat a FCP -5 alive by getting tons of open looks.  Conceptually of course.
I think the packing the lane thing is a misconception of what a -5 is.  It's not like all 5 guys are in constant danger of getting a 3 second violation.
Understood Mike.
 
I don't believe I was the one who initially used the phrase "packing the lane", just responding to the wording that had been used.  It IS interesting to think about though, a FCP is by definition, constant harassment of the ball and ballhandler, while a -5 is by definition supposed to be protecting the interior.  It would seem that if the ball stayed on the perimeter that accomplishing both at the same time would be relatively hard to do.
7/11/2013 3:43 AM
I disagree with the "packing the lane" idea, in the terms that I think a lot of people like to picture it. Like mike said, I doubt there all just stuffed in there waiting for the 3 second call to come.

I tend to think of it in terms of super aggressive defending of the low post, all out hard going. Which I also think is why when you get burned by 3's when playing -5, you really, really get smoked. Over-defending, if you will.  Most times in my experience, it's been very good passing teams that have scorched me from 3. I also think the reverse holds true for +5, with the possible exception that the passing required is a lot less than I would expect. 

For what it's worth, I usually do not make a distinction of what the defense played actually is, except to exploit whatever particular weaknesses come inherent with said defensive set. For instance, knowing FCP to foul more than other D's, I like to run them uptempo to greatly increase the fouls on them, provided I have either a very fast team, or a fast and somewhat athletic team.  Usually pointless to uptempo FCP if you have neither.
7/11/2013 10:05 AM
I've found going uptempo against a team with good defense running the FCP is a recipe for disaster because my guys will turn the ball over too much.
7/11/2013 7:05 PM
That is most certainly a possibility. For me, it really hinges on where my Ath is in relation to theirs. Although sometimes, if the team has really really high defense ( Starters in the 70-80 range) that will sway me to go slow or normal regardless of how good my ath is. Each situation is different. Good IQ's will also have some impact on this. If their Def ratings are high and the IQ's are low to medium, I think it's worth the risks to try most times.
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