All Forums > Hardball Dynasty Baseball > Hardball Dynasty > Which guy should close?
5/25/2013 8:30 AM
<a style="color:black;" href="http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=2163713" target="_blank">B.C. Garland</a> has been a premier closer for years. Now 37, he really hasn't lost much in the way of ratings, but he is coming off what could be considered a subpar season for him. Only problem with him over the years is that he is really only a 9th inning guy. At 56 DUR, 23 STA he has never been more than a 1 inning closer. I've had a closer in waiting for a few seasons now in <a style="color:black;" href="http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=4136793" target="_blank">Deivi Cela</a>. At 71 DUR, 34 STA, he could be a 2 inning closer. He's been SuA the last few years, but he certainly has the ratings and resume to be a top closer.

So, would you leave it as it is, with Garland as closer and Cela as setup, or would you switch their roles.
5/25/2013 9:51 AM
I'd leave them the way they are. You want to get Cela as many innings as possible, and if he is a closer I don't think you'd get to utilize him to his full potential.
5/25/2013 9:55 AM
Many people feel that the closer role is overrated, as the guys who are typically used as closers are generally being underutilized in terms of IP's.

There's also a lot of valid real-life arguments that sometimes the most important situations in the game, where you need to get the "big" out, can take place in the 7th or 8th innings, and not necessarily the 9th.  That's when you may want your best pitcher brought into the game.

I'd disregard the closer role altogether and make them both Setup A's.
5/25/2013 9:58 AM
I do that in my other leagues because I don't have a bona fide closer there. Garland is, and Cela certainly could be. But I don't mind going the 'no closer' route. It sure is food for thought, tec. I'll certainly consider it.
5/25/2013 12:13 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 5/25/2013 9:55:00 AM (view original):
Many people feel that the closer role is overrated, as the guys who are typically used as closers are generally being underutilized in terms of IP's.

There's also a lot of valid real-life arguments that sometimes the most important situations in the game, where you need to get the "big" out, can take place in the 7th or 8th innings, and not necessarily the 9th.  That's when you may want your best pitcher brought into the game.

I'd disregard the closer role altogether and make them both Setup A's.
Agree.  I've never set anyone as closer.  
5/25/2013 3:35 PM
There's an owner in Rickey who uses this guy: Yonder Mercedes as his closer. His numbers are sick.

I've had similar DUR/STA guys get 90-100 ip, but as you can see this guy logs about half of that.

When asked about it, the owner stands firm that when Mercedes pitches he is lights out, so he'd rather have him closing games, and that losing the 50 innings per season is irrelevant because "all innings are not the same".

Different strokes...
5/25/2013 4:01 PM
Posted by mchalesarmy on 5/25/2013 3:37:00 PM (view original):
There's an owner in Rickey who uses this guy: Yonder Mercedes as his closer. His numbers are sick.

I've had similar DUR/STA guys get 90-100 ip, but as you can see this guy logs about half of that.

When asked about it, the owner stands firm that when Mercedes pitches he is lights out, so he'd rather have him closing games, and that losing the 50 innings per season is irrelevant because "all innings are not the same".

Different strokes...
He's only appeared in one ML game that was NOT a save opportunity.

Fantastic production from him when he appears in games.  Not so much in the games he does not appear in.  Like tie games in the late innings.  He can shut down the other team for an inning or so to give his team a chance to score.

Leaving unused IP's in the bullpen from pitchers like him is just dumb.
5/26/2013 7:08 PM (edited)
I'm with Tec.  I've never been lucky enough to have a RP as good as either one of your guys.  If I got one, I wouldn't waste him on closing, because come on, on a per-pitch basis those guys have to be better than any other pitcher on your staff.  I'm pretty sure I could get 90 innings out of Garland and 120 out of Cela, and I would want every last one of them.  Don't waste some of the best pitching talent in your league.  Make those guys SuA's and just make every other RP a SuB.
5/26/2013 3:07 PM
From the 7th on, you should want your best pitching in the most important situation.    If you're up by 1 in the 7th with the 2/3/4 coming up, you want your best pitching against them and not the 8/9/1 in the 9th. 

MLB managers would never do that because it's not how you use "closers" and, quite possibly, the closer isn't mentally into that.    But our players don't have a mindset to deal with or agents demanding their player get save opps.    We just need 3 outs from a guy. 
5/26/2013 3:10 PM
FWIW, if I had one of those 34/13 DUR/STM super pitcher guys, I might use him as closer but I'd set his availability in the 8th.
5/29/2013 4:56 PM
Closing is the only "role" based solely on a statistic.  As such, it robs your team of valuable innings.  Is it possible you may blow more saves?  Yes.  But I believe you win more games with your best pitchers pitching the most innings.  If a relief ace can get you 150 innings, but you give up more than half of those so he can make you comfortable in the 9th, those innings have to go to someone else.  Many times they would go to a lesser pitcher who will give up a bunch of those save opportunities.

In the real thing, I'd be all the save being awarded to the whatever pitcher the official scorer believes "saved" the game for his team.  Yes, I'd change the stat...
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5/30/2013 1:19 PM

I used to not set a closer and I liked that my best RP would get in more games. That said, its really frustrating when your crappy SuB blows 12 saves by the end of the year. I have now taken setting a closer. Usually I look at my best two RPs and pick the one with the lower stam/dur combo.

If you do set a closer make sure you unclick the "use closer in save situtations only". Absoutely no reason to ever click that box....

 

6/2/2013 8:05 PM
Posted by jasonkent25 on 5/29/2013 6:03:00 PM (view original):
In the game i see how having your best pitchers in the setup situation where they get more innings and come in at bigger points in the game, but in real life, ive seen many guys that are closer that just implode in the earlier innings and setup guys that cant handle pressure..  
True in MLB, but doesn't apply here. These guys don't have steely nerves or are head cases. They perform based on ratings without having to worry about the psychological aspects.
6/2/2013 8:16 PM
you should trade cela to me:)

hell, i'd settle with trading garland to me. 
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