All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Do 3pt shots lead to more offensive boards?
5/6/2013 3:17 PM
I'm assuming NO, however since it is true in real life that 3pt fg's misses are more likely to be offensive rebounds than 2pt fg's, figured i'd ask.
5/6/2013 4:07 PM
3 point shots surely lead to more misses and hence more rebounds generally

whether they increase the % of misses that become offensive rebounds, heck if I know
5/6/2013 4:11 PM
If you have better rebounders than your opponent, I would think that the answer is yes. More misses definitely increases the probability of more OREBs.  
5/6/2013 7:52 PM
HD does not distinguish between long and short rebounds, just a shortcoming of the engine
5/6/2013 10:15 PM
Posted by gillispie1 on 5/6/2013 7:52:00 PM (view original):
HD does not distinguish between long and short rebounds, just a shortcoming of the engine
Even so, the increase in 3-point shots should lead to an increase in offensive boards - just not an increase in % of offensive boards.

Consider if you get an offensive rebound 20% of the possible times you could:

If you shoot 20 times and hit 50% (all twos), you'll get, on average, 2 offensive rebounds - 20% of the 10 opportunities.

If you shoot 20 times on threes and hit 30%, you'll get, on average, 2.8 offensive rebounds - 20% of the 14 opportunities.

You aren't rebounding any better or more efficiently, but you will end up with more rebounds. Of course, this assume you are hitting threes at a lower rate that twos... but if you're hitting twos and threes at the same rate, you're almost certainly either blowing people out or getting blown out, so offensive rebounds are the least of your worries.
5/7/2013 2:23 AM (edited)
Posted by zbrent716 on 5/6/2013 10:15:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 5/6/2013 7:52:00 PM (view original):
HD does not distinguish between long and short rebounds, just a shortcoming of the engine
Even so, the increase in 3-point shots should lead to an increase in offensive boards - just not an increase in % of offensive boards.

Consider if you get an offensive rebound 20% of the possible times you could:

If you shoot 20 times and hit 50% (all twos), you'll get, on average, 2 offensive rebounds - 20% of the 10 opportunities.

If you shoot 20 times on threes and hit 30%, you'll get, on average, 2.8 offensive rebounds - 20% of the 14 opportunities.

You aren't rebounding any better or more efficiently, but you will end up with more rebounds. Of course, this assume you are hitting threes at a lower rate that twos... but if you're hitting twos and threes at the same rate, you're almost certainly either blowing people out or getting blown out, so offensive rebounds are the least of your worries.
i agree that more missed shots is going to lead to more rebounds of all types, and i dont think what i said is inconsistent with that. i guess you could take the OP's question either way, i took it as a percentage question, which seems to be the more sophisticated question to me (plus someone already stated the somewhat obvious in an earlier post than mine, more rebound opportunities = more rebounds). so i do agree with what you said, the point i was making is when you miss a shot, the % of time you will get the rebound is not affected by the shot being a 2 or a 3.
5/7/2013 8:33 AM
Posted by coach_billyg on 5/7/2013 2:23:00 AM (view original):
Posted by zbrent716 on 5/6/2013 10:15:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 5/6/2013 7:52:00 PM (view original):
HD does not distinguish between long and short rebounds, just a shortcoming of the engine
Even so, the increase in 3-point shots should lead to an increase in offensive boards - just not an increase in % of offensive boards.

Consider if you get an offensive rebound 20% of the possible times you could:

If you shoot 20 times and hit 50% (all twos), you'll get, on average, 2 offensive rebounds - 20% of the 10 opportunities.

If you shoot 20 times on threes and hit 30%, you'll get, on average, 2.8 offensive rebounds - 20% of the 14 opportunities.

You aren't rebounding any better or more efficiently, but you will end up with more rebounds. Of course, this assume you are hitting threes at a lower rate that twos... but if you're hitting twos and threes at the same rate, you're almost certainly either blowing people out or getting blown out, so offensive rebounds are the least of your worries.
i agree that more missed shots is going to lead to more rebounds of all types, and i dont think what i said is inconsistent with that. i guess you could take the OP's question either way, i took it as a percentage question, which seems to be the more sophisticated question to me (plus someone already stated the somewhat obvious in an earlier post than mine, more rebound opportunities = more rebounds). so i do agree with what you said, the point i was making is when you miss a shot, the % of time you will get the rebound is not affected by the shot being a 2 or a 3.
billyg's right i meant it as an offensive rebounding "rate" question. one of the benefits of shooting 3's in real life is a higher percentage of the rebounds go back to the offense.
5/7/2013 11:26 AM
Posted by jetwildcat on 5/6/2013 3:17:00 PM (view original):
I'm assuming NO, however since it is true in real life that 3pt fg's misses are more likely to be offensive rebounds than 2pt fg's, figured i'd ask.
Do you have some real-life evidence here?
5/7/2013 11:33 AM
Posted by jetwildcat on 5/6/2013 3:17:00 PM (view original):
I'm assuming NO, however since it is true in real life that 3pt fg's misses are more likely to be offensive rebounds than 2pt fg's, figured i'd ask.
This study of NBA games found that in-the-paint 2-pointers create slightly more offensive rebounds than 3-pointers. 

5/7/2013 4:16 PM
Posted by eflhoca on 5/7/2013 11:33:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jetwildcat on 5/6/2013 3:17:00 PM (view original):
I'm assuming NO, however since it is true in real life that 3pt fg's misses are more likely to be offensive rebounds than 2pt fg's, figured i'd ask.
This study of NBA games found that in-the-paint 2-pointers create slightly more offensive rebounds than 3-pointers. 

well there ya go, it also shows that 3-point jumpers get more offensive boards than 2-point jumpers. i was thinking alongside the Rockets' model of efficiency with corner 3's, since one of the benefits is the higher offensive rebound rate for those shots.
5/8/2013 8:23 PM
Posted by jetwildcat on 5/7/2013 4:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by eflhoca on 5/7/2013 11:33:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jetwildcat on 5/6/2013 3:17:00 PM (view original):
I'm assuming NO, however since it is true in real life that 3pt fg's misses are more likely to be offensive rebounds than 2pt fg's, figured i'd ask.
This study of NBA games found that in-the-paint 2-pointers create slightly more offensive rebounds than 3-pointers. 

well there ya go, it also shows that 3-point jumpers get more offensive boards than 2-point jumpers. i was thinking alongside the Rockets' model of efficiency with corner 3's, since one of the benefits is the higher offensive rebound rate for those shots.
I found another good site analyzing rebound placement from various shots. I think the question should be- do 3-point shots in HD generate more offensive rebounds than long 2-point jumpers? The data say they should. The charts on the linked page could also be useful to the programmers. A three point shot generates a slightly longer rebound, more likely to be snagged by guards. That's an example of something which should be factored into the engine. 
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