4/28/2013 4:45 PM
Posted by hughesjr on 4/28/2013 12:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by indiansrck27 on 4/24/2013 9:12:00 PM (view original):
But WHY would the quality of the game improve? Because you think that maybe possibly conceivably, feasibly, by chance, perhaps people cheat?

Just play the game, do you. Dont worry about other people. If maybe possibly conceivably, feasibly, by chance, perhaps someone feels the need to cheat, just be a better coach and beat them.
The quality of the game would improve because 2 teams in the same world is collusion.  And except for the 1000 mile exception (which obviously people break without a second thought) that is written in the rules, would not be allowed.

You can not have 2 teams in the same Hard Ball Dynasty world, or in the same Sim League world ... why should you be allowed to do it in HD or GD.

in HD, if you absolutely want to play only in 2 game a day worlds and there are only 3 of those ... AND ... if you have a team in all 3 already ... AND ... if you publish publicly that you have 2 IDs and follow the 1000 mile rule for your 4th (or 5th or 6th) team, then I could see that as a reason.

Or if you only like 1 game worlds, same for 8th, 9th, or more team since there are 7 worlds.

It is demonstratively collusive to have 2 teams in the same world ... especially in the same division.  And collusive is bad because of perception.

I have 10 teams, one in each world.  There is plenty of competition and you can spend plenty of time doing it .. and it is far from free.  I can win, I have been National Coach of the Year several time, though I have not yet won a National Championship.  I have had several teams in the Final 4 and Championship games in several worlds.

I have never accused anyone of cheating, but I think that with the money I pay I should be able to expect that I can compete on equal terms and not have to worry about a coach having 2 teams in the same world.

I also do not believe in name calling, and I can see why people might have a different opinion.  But it is a good enough rule for all the other SIM games besides GD and HD ... why should those games allow something that is considered cheating in the other games on the WIS site?

There is not a real reason in here why having only one team improves the quality.

Just cause you have two teams in a world does not automatically equal collusion. Period end of story. You are assuming that it does, but it doesnt. 

So if you want to ride that excuse that you arent playing in fair worlds go ahead, if ti helps you sleep have it.
4/28/2013 4:55 PM
Posted by emy1013 on 4/28/2013 4:38:00 PM (view original):
Posted by kevin_w64 on 4/28/2013 3:57:00 PM (view original):
I recently built a resume in Knight so that when the team I want becomes available I can apply for it. 15-20 seasons to get to D1 team or even a Big 6 team is an over exaggeration. I spent 1 season at a D3 program, then 5 seasons at a D2 program. I stayed longer at D2 than I needed. 4 seasons at a D1 school and I was able to get GT in the ACC. I ended up getting busy and forgot to renew so I lost them after 1 season, but CS put me back to my lower D1 school. I had to rebuild my resume, but after 5 seasons I was qualified for another Big 6 school.

I have just started the process in Phelan so I will have two chances at getting the other D1 team I want. I am a mediocre coach, but I expect to be at a Big 6 school in less than 10 seasons. 
A mediocre coach?  Ha, I think not.  Humble, yes.  Mediocre, far from it.  Kevin, as I told you before, I'm glad it was you that took over Duke when I finally decided to leave.  I knew then that there would be no drop in performance and if anything, there would be increased performance.  You, sir, are FAR from being a mediocre coach.  Don't disrespect yourself like that.
I can only hope to equal your success at Duke. Under your control they were a Championship contender every season. I am still jealous of your 3 championships at 3 different D1 schools in Tark. I was quietly rooting for you to take over ISU and go for 4.
4/28/2013 5:25 PM
Thanks Kev.  I had actually made up my mind to move there and try for a fourth different school/title, but when I went to apply Cedarberry had already taken the job.  Oh well, there are always others.
4/28/2013 6:19 PM (edited)
Posted by kevin_w64 on 4/28/2013 3:57:00 PM (view original):
I recently built a resume in Knight so that when the team I want becomes available I can apply for it. 15-20 seasons to get to D1 team or even a Big 6 team is an over exaggeration. I spent 1 season at a D3 program, then 5 seasons at a D2 program. I stayed longer at D2 than I needed. 4 seasons at a D1 school and I was able to get GT in the ACC. I ended up getting busy and forgot to renew so I lost them after 1 season, but CS put me back to my lower D1 school. I had to rebuild my resume, but after 5 seasons I was qualified for another Big 6 school.

I have just started the process in Phelan so I will have two chances at getting the other D1 team I want. I am a mediocre coach, but I expect to be at a Big 6 school in less than 10 seasons. 
you just recently won what, 3 titles in 7 seasons, in a very competitive d1 tark? how long it takes you to move up isnt really going to be a representative sample. i dont think 15-20 seasons to replace an A prestige big 6 job is unreasonable for the public at all. some coaches can move up faster, to d1, but many have to take some time, maybe waiting to hit 200 wins. for a highly competitive coach, i could easily see a path like this:
1 season at d3, move up to a decent d2 job
5 seasons at d2, assuming some rebuild is needed when you are sort of last pick (from only 1 season in d3), culminating in a few NT appearances and a decent run or two, to allow moving up to d1 (with so few wins, more than simple back to back NT1 or NT2 spots is kind of needed). move up to a d+ prestige mid major
6 seasons at a d1 mid major, to get eligible for a low end BCS job. an awesome performance could make it happen in 4, but unless you walk into a dream situation, you usually have to rebuild and then make a few NTs, i think 6 seasons is pretty good - and with a couple bumps, i could see more. the coach still probably doesnt even have 300 wins at this point.
6 seasons to rebuild the low end BCS job to an A prestige. that is a fantastic job, if you ask me.

thats 18 seasons, and i think thats a pretty damn solid performance. in your case, which i dont think you can assume everyone else can do, you took 6 seasons to get to d1 (as in my example), 4 seasons to get to GT (which is really good) - but thats 10 seasons, and you just started a BCS rebuild. after 5 seasons you were qualified for another big 6 school - thats 15 seasons. and what prestige did you end with? regardless you just described a highly competitive coach basically getting it done in 15. so how is 15-20 an over exaggeration? 

 a less successful coach, one for whom getting an A prestige BCS job is one of their bigger accomplishments, can *easily* take 8 seasons to get to d1, and 8 seasons just to go through the major rebuild, before even getting any BCS job. then, they can easily take 8 more to get the program rebuild up to like a B+ level. to me, 24 seasons is not an unreasonable scenario, and that wouldn't even have them all the way there.

the situation you get, what school you draw, how good the conference is, that is a huge factor. in a tough spot even a really good coach can't always rebuild as fast as you describe. i took south carolina over at a b-, with a huge SEC ACC disadvantage, and that was even a time when i was fairly into the game, relatively speaking. i did a really solid job turning them around, and plenty of good coaches wouldnt have been as successful. taking such a tough program to be really high successful, to a last second, 1 point loss away from back to back titles, thats probably the one performance ive had in the last 3+ years that i was actually happy with. but despite that - my first great team, good chance they were #1 in the country, built on a b+ prestige, which i was super happy with - they had a tough draw, drew a great team/coach in the sweet 16, and lost. as a result, it took me 7 seasons to get an A, and i lost it immediately - took me 10 seasons to be able to maintain an A.

so, i think unless you are an incredible coach, and have a dream run with almost no bumps or poor dice rolls, spending 15-20 seasons to retake a long time, high end big 6 job is far from an over exaggeration.

edit: maybe i see the confusion, in my post, i talked about how long it could take to get back a long time job, like an A prestige BCS job. and then in the conclusion i referenced it again, but didnt say A prestige or long time successful job there, just said, for the guy who has to give up the d1 job (i meant the same guy as mentioned earlier), it could take 15-20 seasons. which is true. if that guy is a guy who pre-dated the rule, and he DOESNT have an A prestige BCS job, well i would still make the same argument. if it took him that long to get a B prestige BCS job, it could take him 15-20 seasons to do it again, because each step will take longer than the guy who is able to maintain the A prestige program. and, i dont consider any of these 3 categories of teams to be equal replacements for the others: mid major, low end BCS, high end BCS.

4/28/2013 6:29 PM
Posted by gillispie1 on 4/28/2013 6:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by kevin_w64 on 4/28/2013 3:57:00 PM (view original):
I recently built a resume in Knight so that when the team I want becomes available I can apply for it. 15-20 seasons to get to D1 team or even a Big 6 team is an over exaggeration. I spent 1 season at a D3 program, then 5 seasons at a D2 program. I stayed longer at D2 than I needed. 4 seasons at a D1 school and I was able to get GT in the ACC. I ended up getting busy and forgot to renew so I lost them after 1 season, but CS put me back to my lower D1 school. I had to rebuild my resume, but after 5 seasons I was qualified for another Big 6 school.

I have just started the process in Phelan so I will have two chances at getting the other D1 team I want. I am a mediocre coach, but I expect to be at a Big 6 school in less than 10 seasons. 
you just recently won what, 3 titles in 7 seasons, in a very competitive d1 tark? how long it takes you to move up isnt really going to be a representative sample. i dont think 15-20 seasons to replace an A prestige big 6 job is unreasonable for the public at all. some coaches can move up faster, to d1, but many have to take some time, maybe waiting to hit 200 wins. for a highly competitive coach, i could easily see a path like this:
1 season at d3, move up to a decent d2 job
5 seasons at d2, assuming some rebuild is needed when you are sort of last pick (from only 1 season in d3), culminating in a few NT appearances and a decent run or two, to allow moving up to d1 (with so few wins, more than simple back to back NT1 or NT2 spots is kind of needed). move up to a d+ prestige mid major
6 seasons at a d1 mid major, to get eligible for a low end BCS job. an awesome performance could make it happen in 4, but unless you walk into a dream situation, you usually have to rebuild and then make a few NTs, i think 6 seasons is pretty good - and with a couple bumps, i could see more. the coach still probably doesnt even have 300 wins at this point.
6 seasons to rebuild the low end BCS job to an A prestige. that is a fantastic job, if you ask me.

thats 18 seasons, and i think thats a pretty damn solid performance. in your case, which i dont think you can assume everyone else can do, you took 6 seasons to get to d1 (as in my example), 4 seasons to get to GT (which is really good) - but thats 10 seasons, and you just started a BCS rebuild. after 5 seasons you were qualified for another big 6 school - thats 15 seasons. and what prestige did you end with? regardless you just described a highly competitive coach basically getting it done in 15. so how is 15-20 an over exaggeration? 

 a less successful coach, one for whom getting an A prestige BCS job is one of their bigger accomplishments, can *easily* take 8 seasons to get to d1, and 8 seasons just to go through the major rebuild, before even getting any BCS job. then, they can easily take 8 more to get the program rebuild up to like a B+ level. to me, 24 seasons is not an unreasonable scenario, and that wouldn't even have them all the way there.

the situation you get, what school you draw, how good the conference is, that is a huge factor. in a tough spot even a really good coach can't always rebuild as fast as you describe. i took south carolina over at a b-, with a huge SEC ACC disadvantage, and that was even a time when i was fairly into the game, relatively speaking. i did a really solid job turning them around, and plenty of good coaches wouldnt have been as successful. taking such a tough program to be really high successful, to a last second, 1 point loss away from back to back titles, thats probably the one performance ive had in the last 3+ years that i was actually happy with. but despite that - my first great team, good chance they were #1 in the country, built on a b+ prestige, which i was super happy with - they had a tough draw, drew a great team/coach in the sweet 16, and lost. as a result, it took me 7 seasons to get an A, and i lost it immediately - took me 10 seasons to be able to maintain an A.

so, i think unless you are an incredible coach, and have a dream run with almost no bumps or poor dice rolls, spending 15-20 seasons to retake a long time, high end big 6 job is far from an over exaggeration.

edit: maybe i see the confusion, in my post, i talked about how long it could take to get back a long time job, like an A prestige BCS job. and then in the conclusion i referenced it again, but didnt say A prestige or long time successful job there, just said, for the guy who has to give up the d1 job (i meant the same guy as mentioned earlier), it could take 15-20 seasons. which is true. if that guy is a guy who pre-dated the rule, and he DOESNT have an A prestige BCS job, well i would still make the same argument. if it took him that long to get a B prestige BCS job, it could take him 15-20 seasons to do it again, because each step will take longer than the guy who is able to maintain the A prestige program. and, i dont consider any of these 3 categories of teams to be equal replacements for the others: mid major, low end BCS, high end BCS.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought we were talking about just getting to D1. In that case you are correct. It takes a long time to get a good job. I joined the BEast in it's heyday with Olddave, OR, MB and Sully winning championships. It was brutal and took me much longer than you to build up my team. I think I switched O and D a few times in the beginning as well. 
4/28/2013 10:12 PM
maybe, i dont know who was talking about what. i was using getting back to an A prestige d1 job as a worst case example. but also, getting a decent d1 job vs replacing a d2 ID was another part of the discussion, that was colonel's example at least.
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