All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > My time here is coming to an end
4/22/2013 10:51 AM
Also, to head off the flaming:  I don't take scholarship lightly in real life, but this is a game, the players are not real and I don't care if they stay at 2.0 for their entire career, as long as they can play the game, I'm good with that. This is a feature built in to give it the feel of reality, but I don't have to drink the Kool-aid on this particular issue to be happy.
I agree with this idea - it's just a feature of the game. However, I make sure to give enough study hall time where it's never in question because of precisely the reason mentioned: I don't want to risk an ineligible.

I don't want anyone even below 2.5 because I don't want that risk.



4/22/2013 10:52 AM
Posted by mmt0315 on 4/22/2013 10:48:00 AM (view original):

This thread is hysterical and I never get the point. Usually goes like this. User does something the general HD community thinks is wrong. Writes CS, doesnt like their response...decides to quit. User decides rather then just quit, he must make some public announcement declaring why he quit trying to rally support except everyone tells him he is wrong. User fights back claiming he is right pointing towards 100+ seasons of experience, ignoring that he is being told he is wrong by a collective which consists of 5000+ seasons of experience. User doesnt quit.

hahahaha i love it. mmt is 100% spot-on here.
4/22/2013 11:11 AM
i Add 10 min. Of SH to any player that is yellow-lined
4/22/2013 11:12 AM
The kid in question had a 2.38 HS GPA.  The safe rule of thumb says that freshmen should have [(4.0 - HS GPA) x 10] minutes SH to be virtually assured of never flunking out.  I used to use this but then always read where other coaches used a lot less.  So I've trimmed back from this rule of thumb a lot...but whenever I get a freshman who is yellow-lined at mid-semester, I come back to this "rule" and ratchet up the SH minutes significantly to compensate for him being deficient in the first half of that semester.  And it also depends if he's at 2.4 or 2.1.

In your case sly, this kid could deserve 14 minutes of SH using the above rule, but even after you bumped him up he was getting far less than that, and given the highly random results freshmen can get in GPA that first year, obviously you should've gone much higher, esp. since he was 2.1 at mid-terms.

I hope you reconsider leaving the game.  I'm a fan of yours but I do think this one is mostly on you based on my HD observations.  Stay strong!
4/22/2013 11:12 AM
i play study hall tight, and (often because i forget to do the required diligence when midterms) as a result, lose players to grades all the time. if i watch it closely, sure, you can cut and close and you *rarely* get burned. but sometimes, you still do. that 5m towards a 2.1, you left yourself at least a 5 or 10% chance of the guy failing out. i do think most coaches put more SH time in, but they just dont want to take the risk. if you sacrifice SH for player growth, you are inherently accepting to tolerate that occasional flunkie.

slyman, its super easy to get sucked into the moment in this game, so i would just suggest you sleep on it and decide if it is really such a travesty, tomorrow. honestly,. that CS response may not be stellar, but its AT LEAST par for the course, and probably a little better. if you've been here 11 years, im sure that deep down, you know that. its the same caliber CS response you've lived with for half a decade or more, so to me, nothing has really changed. hopefully tomorrow you will see it the same way :) if you say, well its just the straw that broke the camels back, i can empathize with that, very easily. but it really does seem to me to be no more than a straw...
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4/22/2013 11:48 AM
My default for freshmen is 7 minutes for between a 2.5 and 3.0 HS GPA. Above 3.0, I'll go 6 or lower (never lower than 3, even if they had a 4.0). Below 2.5, I'll go 8+ (although I usually don't go higher than 10). 

At mid-term, I adjust up for anyone at 2.5 or below. At final, I adjust down (by 1-3 minutes) for everyone at 2.8 or above. 

If I had a guy who had a 3.4 his previous semester on 5 minutes of study hall, I'd definitely adjust him down to 3. I'm actually a little surprised that this is getting some push-back. It seems really obvious to me. 

If I saw he was at 2.1 at mid-term, I'd probably bump him up a bit higher, just to be safe, as many are saying. 

Honestly, I think the first answer from CS ("well, 5 minutes is pretty low") is really condescending and would've made me just as mad as it made sly. They're ignoring the other factors (i.e. that he'd already had a 3.4 with 5 minutes). Now the response that some randomness is included (and presumably that 3.4 and 1.9 are within the programmed variance (albeit likely at the extreme ends)) sounds reasonable to me, although a bit frustrating. 

Sly is a good coach, and I hope he stays around. 

Just my $.02
4/22/2013 12:13 PM (edited)
i don't mess around with gpa. no chances. i usually start with 5 (unless the guy is under 2.5 in hs, then i'll start with 10 or so) and then just increase when they're close to failing. a 2.2 or so would make me put AT LEAST double minutes in. a 2.4 and i prob just increase by 1 minute or so.

i cannot recall the last time i had a guy fail. prob has been minimum a calendar year.

edit: i definitely take sh minutes away almost completely for upperclassmen unless necessary.

4/22/2013 11:57 AM
I've said this before but I don't like the way study hall is set up. I don't want to do away with it but changed so that the randomness is taken out of it. Unlike with game results and some other aspects of hd, randomness doesn't result in anything but frustration to users when it is used in conjunction with study hall. What study hall adds is an extra variable to take into account when recruiting. Beyond that, there isn't any advantage to having a 4.0 instead of a 2.5. So, the goal of any user is to do the bare minimum to keep players eligible. So, why not make it a flat line system and just have the option to put in the bare minimum minutes. That or make excess gpa points redeemable for a few skill points in any category of the users choice. Anyways, I should probably end the rant and get back to work.
4/22/2013 12:13 PM
I always go with overkill on study hall minutes.  I know it and it probably results in my guys developing a tiny bit slower than they otherwise would.  In my mind, I don't really understand why you would take ANY chance at all of losing a player to grades when another 5 minutes of SH time usually just means taking 1 minute of practice time out of 5 different attributes, which would have a very small effect on their pace of development in those attributes.  I tend to agree with what others have said here: this one is on you (although I do agree CS could have been a tad bit more polite about how they responded to you...afterall, you are their CUSTOMER).
4/22/2013 12:18 PM
Posted by therewas47 on 4/22/2013 11:57:00 AM (view original):
I've said this before but I don't like the way study hall is set up. I don't want to do away with it but changed so that the randomness is taken out of it. Unlike with game results and some other aspects of hd, randomness doesn't result in anything but frustration to users when it is used in conjunction with study hall. What study hall adds is an extra variable to take into account when recruiting. Beyond that, there isn't any advantage to having a 4.0 instead of a 2.5. So, the goal of any user is to do the bare minimum to keep players eligible. So, why not make it a flat line system and just have the option to put in the bare minimum minutes. That or make excess gpa points redeemable for a few skill points in any category of the users choice. Anyways, I should probably end the rant and get back to work.

While I see your point here, it is a variable that has to be considered that adds another layer to the game.  Since GPAs are used only for determining how quickly a recruit will learn your systems on offense and defense they lose a lot of the potential for this variable.  Obviously having to "practice" study hall takes away from developning your players' attributes, and that has to be considered when you recruit, it would be a much more dynamic variable if the player's actual GPA starting with his first semester report card was used to influce the pace of development for offense and defense IQs rather than still using his HS GPA.  This would give coaches another variable to conisder in player development.  Do you want high IQs first or higher attribute ratings first?  I would welcome that change to the engine.

4/22/2013 12:31 PM
Posted by aejones on 4/22/2013 12:13:00 PM (view original):
i don't mess around with gpa. no chances. i usually start with 5 (unless the guy is under 2.5 in hs, then i'll start with 10 or so) and then just increase when they're close to failing. a 2.2 or so would make me put AT LEAST double minutes in. a 2.4 and i prob just increase by 1 minute or so.

i cannot recall the last time i had a guy fail. prob has been minimum a calendar year.

edit: i definitely take sh minutes away almost completely for upperclassmen unless necessary.

I roll the dice all the time with Freshmen.   I go zero minutes sometimes if I don't need them.  I lose one about every fifteen seasons or so.
4/22/2013 1:20 PM
If you basically do what Alblack says, and bump up the SH on a guy that is yellow lined, you should be fine. I don't necessarily bump it up ten minutes, --depends on the circumstances, but would guess HD doesn't suspend a player without a midterm warning. So there is no reason to have that happen unless you forget to bump his SH up appropriately. For coaches taking over a sim, it is a problem because several seasons ago, HD decided to set all sims players at 2.0-2.2, regardless of their HS GPA. Just one more thing for a neophyte coach to worry about. You start your career with a confusing recruiting process, and then have to worry about keeping your players eligible. Never understood why HD did that. Almost as if they want new coaches to become discouraged and quit.
4/22/2013 1:30 PM
Yeah the simAI established baseline for GPA is TERRIBLE. If a guy is an upperclassmen you spend most of your time you have left with him trying to make sure he stays eligible.
4/22/2013 2:15 PM
Idk why everyone thinks I'm angry at the kid becoming ineligible... yes that got the ball rolling but it is the bullshit response from CS that has made me really wonder if I want to keep paying $$ to a website that doesn't give half a **** about customers enough to give me anything other than a standard response to start. I've been paying $$ here since 2002 so I would expect something more than I got, although like some have said idk why I expected any differently. Maybe I should take a step back and sleep on it like gillispie said bc I do enjoy the interactions with most ppl on WIS (although there are some in this thread that are truly pathetic and I haven't ever even played against your teams). I guess we shall see but I still don't understand how the GPAs could vary so greatly under similar circumstances unless I hit both ends of the spectrum. Also in the CS response did they admit to making changes to the game or have I forgotten a release along the way?
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