All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Ground Zero Cross - A Victory For Common Sense
4/9/2013 1:15 PM
A court has ruled that the "Ground Zero Cross" is not a religious symbol and doesn't constitute the government endorsing any religion because the government isn't using it for religious purposes.

My take is the same as that of the article I like to: Finally, someone has stood up for common sense.

A museum should be allowed to display historically relevant things regardless of if some people also see them as religious symbols. Now if we could just keep that same common sense over other similar issues - such as the historical significance of having the ten commandments on courthouses - then perhaps the atheists who put forth this idiocy would stop.

Really, the atheists with agendas need to get lives and find something better to do.

4/10/2013 12:00 PM
Again you are looking at the wrong enemy.

There are a handful of Atheists who occasionaly ask for the government to make special accomidations for their religion.

The liberal Democrats use that to eliminate traditional religious teaching.

Atheists are not the problem...The liberal left is!

4/10/2013 2:46 PM
Radical atheists ARE a problem, swamp.

It's not that they want to defend their own beliefs.

No, they want to stand in the way of other people's beliefs.

They realize that no one will accept this in most circumstances, so they go out of their way to find circumstances where they can spew their hatred of and objection toward all religion and it might somehow be accepted - such as with displays on government property.

If they had their way, they'd be allowed to force everyone to stop believing in anything religious, because they believe that only THEY should have religious freedom.

Every time I find out that one of their hate campaigns has suffered a loss - like this one with the Ground Zero Cross - I celebrate, because they're a bunch of clowns with no lives and nothing better to do than to cause problems for others and it needs to stop.

4/11/2013 2:37 AM
Hey everyone has the right to be stupid but to hear religious whack-jobs complain about others standing in the way of their beliefs is hilarious.  Religion is a disease of the mind, and, like a virus, its only purpose is to replicate.  Please go pray in an empty closet, and keep your religious advertising to yourself.
4/11/2013 9:13 AM
Way to give a real example of the ridiculous ideas of radical atheism.

You want to try to tell others they can't express their religious beliefs - unless they agree with your own, which is that religion is bad. In that case, you and they are free to express that as much as you want.

This is exactly the kind of BS I was talking about in the last post - you think only YOUR religion (none at all) should have religious freedoms, and everyone else should cater to what you want.

When you express this kind of ignorance, you have no right to call anyone else a "whack-job", because you are one yourself.

4/11/2013 1:48 PM (edited)
I have every right to call anyone anything I want to---that is freedom of speech, a concept religious zealots such as yourself have historically had an enormous problem understanding.  And if you believe that religious whack-jobs are wear the white hat in the battle for freedom of expression, then you know nothing at all about history. 

To prevent further misunderstandings on the basis of your faulty assumptions, I should also state that I am not atheist; I am agnostic. 

4/11/2013 1:56 PM
I'm far from a religious zealot, but you jumped right to that conclusion simply because I defend people's right to worship as they see fit.

I have my own religious beliefs, but I don't even express them here. I'm merely defending people's right to the free speech you claim you support, but you only want free speech if it doesn't include religion, and that's not something you can restrict.

Whether you are atheist or agnostic doesn't make much difference as to this topic.

The key thing is that you believe all religious expression should be restricted, and that's a radical position not supported by American law - in fact, it's expressly AGAINST the law.

Keep your free speech. Just don't tell other people what they can and cannot do in terms of THEIR free speech, which can include religious expression.
4/11/2013 2:49 PM
You have no idea what I believe.  I don't have time to give you a history lesson or help you understand American politics and law.  Get an education.  Read history that is untainted by spiritualist nonsense.  Make the world a better place for everyone. 
4/11/2013 2:59 PM
Posted by dream76 on 4/11/2013 2:49:00 PM (view original):
You have no idea what I believe.  I don't have time to give you a history lesson or help you understand American politics and law.  Get an education.  Read history that is untainted by spiritualist nonsense.  Make the world a better place for everyone. 
Isnt American history dominated by spiritualism?

Wasnt the whole history of our nation very religious? More than europe over the last 200+ years?

Didnt we vote to make "In God We Trust" our national motto about 60 years ago?

Isnt Religion a huge part of our history?

Why are some trying to deny this?
4/11/2013 3:45 PM
dream76,

I know what you told me, and I don't need to know your beliefs to know that it's ridiculous BS.

I'm quite well verse in both history and politics, so even if you "had the time", I don't need your so-called lessons.

In fact, I would suggest you need to become better educated so you understand that free speech means for EVERYONE, not just people who agree with you.
4/11/2013 4:19 PM (edited)
Posted by swamphawk22 on 4/11/2013 2:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dream76 on 4/11/2013 2:49:00 PM (view original):
You have no idea what I believe.  I don't have time to give you a history lesson or help you understand American politics and law.  Get an education.  Read history that is untainted by spiritualist nonsense.  Make the world a better place for everyone. 
Isnt American history dominated by spiritualism?

Wasnt the whole history of our nation very religious? More than europe over the last 200+ years?

Didnt we vote to make "In God We Trust" our national motto about 60 years ago?

Isnt Religion a huge part of our history?

Why are some trying to deny this?
"I am certainly not an advocate for frequent and untried changes in laws and constitutions.  I think moderate imperfections had better be borne with; because, when once known, we accommodate ourselves to them, and find practical means of correcting their ill effects.  But I know also, that laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind.  As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times.  We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him w hen a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."  Thomas Jefferson

What's funny is that Christians used to be called atheists by the Romans for not worshipping the pagan deities.  What will generations down the line think of Christians today?

And as far as Atheist extremism (which is hilarious given that the Westboro Baptist Church even exists...) - Sweden is considered to be the most Atheist country in the world, estimated around 85% of the population to be non-religious.  

- They place 4th in a study by Transparency International studying the "least corrupt countries."  9 of the top 10 are considered in the top 25 of most non-religious countries in the world.  

- A 2010 study by Press Freedom Index studied the "happiest countries" in the world based on findings from over 100 studies around the world - all but one country (Ireland) in the top 10 are listed among the top 25 of most non-religious.  

- Global Information Technology report from 2011, studying the most advanced countries in terms of IT in the world, 8 of the top 10 are in the top 25 of most non-religious.  

- Most generous countries when it comes to giving aid to poor countries (per % of GDP), 8 of the top 10 are in to top 25 of most non-religious.  

- Global Peace Index, which studies (obviously) the most peaceful countries in the world based on data collected by the Economist Intelligence Unit - 9 of the top 10 are listed in the top 25 most non-religious.

The USA is not listed in the top 10 of any of the five studies above.  But yea... religion is totally awesome and logical... no wars are ever started over religion...

Honduras and El Salvador are some of the most religious countries in the world, around 85% religious - they also lead the world in most murders per capita.
4/11/2013 4:35 PM
We can argue the value of religion.

We cannot argue the place religion has played in the history of America.
4/11/2013 4:47 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 4/11/2013 4:35:00 PM (view original):
We can argue the value of religion.

We cannot argue the place religion has played in the history of America.
And I'd argue that's a contributing reason as to why we are falling behind. I understand its importance in our history, I just feel that's where it should stay.
4/11/2013 5:00 PM
As a non-religious person, I'd argue the lack of moral guidance that religion offers is why we're a cesspool of immorality.

We do better when we're afraid of eternal discomfort.
4/11/2013 6:41 PM
Posted by ryrun on 4/11/2013 4:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 4/11/2013 4:35:00 PM (view original):
We can argue the value of religion.

We cannot argue the place religion has played in the history of America.
And I'd argue that's a contributing reason as to why we are falling behind. I understand its importance in our history, I just feel that's where it should stay.
So the 1st 160+ years of our nation as we became the most powerful nation in the world, we were very religious.

And in the last 50+ as we slip away and lose power isnt it odd that at the same time we are becoming less and less religious?
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All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Ground Zero Cross - A Victory For Common Sense

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