7/1/2013 1:15 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 12:47:00 PM (view original):
You're also an adult(at least in age).   Ask a 6 year old.   You know, the people they'll be hanging around with all day.
The 6 year old isn't going to care, because he doesn't know any better.  He's going to love his parents, just like any child would.  You're afraid he's going to be made fun of? Kids are made fun of about everything.  I was suspended for a day in middle school because some kid was relentlessly making fun of my shoes and kicking me, so I punched him in the face.  If a kid wants to make fun of you, he'll make fun of you.  Schools are getting better and better at dealing with bullying.  You can find a ton of help online and organizations whose goal is to curb the bullying that takes place.  

And it's kinda besides the point.  tec thinks children with same-sex parents aren't raised as well as opposite sex parents.  I'm thinking that's not the case, and don't totally understand the "mom teaches you one thing, dad teaches you another thing" idea.  
7/1/2013 1:15 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 7/1/2013 12:49:00 PM (view original):
So we have different opinions.

Why are we still talking about this?
I don't know, our opinions aren't going to change.  I'll go away if you do.
7/1/2013 1:16 PM
Yeah, it really is pointless trying to convince bigots not to be bigots.
7/1/2013 1:18 PM
By the way, tec, you got back to preaching about how marriage has this ancient historical tradition of being between one man and one woman the last few pages.  Please respond to my question about how this is, well, true.  Through most of history polygamy has been the norm amongst people who could afford it.  I particularly love the fact that most proponents of "traditional marriage" have religiously saturated arguments, while - as I specifically mentioned - King David and most of the other Biblical kings of the Israelites had many wives and concubines.
7/1/2013 1:19 PM
Maybe 6 year olds don't care.   Still doesn't mean they won't make fun of the other child.    Maybe you see mocking of shoes and parents in the same light.  I don't. 

I got in a ton of fights in school.  My parents divorced when I was 5.   That didn't happen in the 60s.  I got in fights because I had a black teacher in 2nd grade.  I'm guessing that wasn't prevelant in the 60s either.   I think having two dads is probably comparable in today's society. 
7/1/2013 1:20 PM
In summary, the argument that marriage has "always been between one man and one woman" is bullshit.  Marriage has generally been between one man and as many women as he can afford to support.  Unless we're considering only the Christian world which, again, is far from an inclusive perspective.  Particularly when you guys earlier in the thread invoked 5000 and 10000 years of history at different points.
7/1/2013 1:23 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 1:11:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 7/1/2013 1:10:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 12:47:00 PM (view original):
You're also an adult(at least in age).   Ask a 6 year old.   You know, the people they'll be hanging around with all day.
Maybe someone should do a study of 500 kids of gay parents and see how they turned out?

As I said, 500 isn't a whole lot.  

As I said, I don't even think those 500 were in our society.

Your point?

You're claiming that we don't know. How do you suggest we find out?
7/1/2013 1:25 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 1:19:00 PM (view original):
Maybe 6 year olds don't care.   Still doesn't mean they won't make fun of the other child.    Maybe you see mocking of shoes and parents in the same light.  I don't. 

I got in a ton of fights in school.  My parents divorced when I was 5.   That didn't happen in the 60s.  I got in fights because I had a black teacher in 2nd grade.  I'm guessing that wasn't prevelant in the 60s either.   I think having two dads is probably comparable in today's society. 
And everything turned out ok in the end, right?  Should we not have allowed divorces and black teachers because we wanted more peace between children in our schools?  **** happens; there's a lot of drama in school.  It's not a good reason to not allow 2 people who would be great parents the opportunity to raise a child.
7/1/2013 1:32 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 7/1/2013 1:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 1:19:00 PM (view original):
Maybe 6 year olds don't care.   Still doesn't mean they won't make fun of the other child.    Maybe you see mocking of shoes and parents in the same light.  I don't. 

I got in a ton of fights in school.  My parents divorced when I was 5.   That didn't happen in the 60s.  I got in fights because I had a black teacher in 2nd grade.  I'm guessing that wasn't prevelant in the 60s either.   I think having two dads is probably comparable in today's society. 
And everything turned out ok in the end, right?  Should we not have allowed divorces and black teachers because we wanted more peace between children in our schools?  **** happens; there's a lot of drama in school.  It's not a good reason to not allow 2 people who would be great parents the opportunity to raise a child.

I don't know.  I don't think fighting is a "good" thing for children.

I also don't know how we determine "great parents" from an application and an interview.   Is it possible that a gay couple might be ****** parents?

7/1/2013 1:36 PM
Fighting isn't a good thing for children.  But we shouldn't not allow divorces, black school employees and gay parents to avoid them; that's silly.

I'd argue they're as likely to be great parents as any straight couple.
7/1/2013 1:45 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 1:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 7/1/2013 1:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 1:19:00 PM (view original):
Maybe 6 year olds don't care.   Still doesn't mean they won't make fun of the other child.    Maybe you see mocking of shoes and parents in the same light.  I don't. 

I got in a ton of fights in school.  My parents divorced when I was 5.   That didn't happen in the 60s.  I got in fights because I had a black teacher in 2nd grade.  I'm guessing that wasn't prevelant in the 60s either.   I think having two dads is probably comparable in today's society. 
And everything turned out ok in the end, right?  Should we not have allowed divorces and black teachers because we wanted more peace between children in our schools?  **** happens; there's a lot of drama in school.  It's not a good reason to not allow 2 people who would be great parents the opportunity to raise a child.

I don't know.  I don't think fighting is a "good" thing for children.

I also don't know how we determine "great parents" from an application and an interview.   Is it possible that a gay couple might be ****** parents?

Should we not let *anyone* adopt? Because you don't know how we determine great parents from an application and interview.

Mike's philosophy on life:

We don't know. We can never be certain. We likely won't ever know. What was it the gays wanted to do again? Yeah...that...we can't let them do that.
7/1/2013 2:01 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 7/1/2013 1:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 7/1/2013 12:06:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 7/1/2013 12:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 7/1/2013 11:31:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 7/1/2013 11:21:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 10:24:00 AM (view original):
If it makes you feel better, I think each individual marriage, traditional or same sex, is different.   I don't necessarily think married parents are any better at child-rearing than unmarried parents. 
Parenting is more a function of the people involved.  Having them being married provides a marginal benefit in that it provides a level of stability and security to the family unit.
I'm assuming you would also mean a civil union works with this argument too, yes? As in there's no difference.
I think tec is saying that a civil union and marriage are the same thing.

Right, tec?
One (marriage) has been around  for tens of thousands of years, and has a very specific and traditional connotation.

The other (civil union) has only been around a few decades, and has a slightly different meaning.
In terms of child rearing, they are the same?
In my opinion, no.  I've stated why probably three or four times over the past couple of days.
7/1/2013 2:05 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 7/1/2013 1:18:00 PM (view original):
By the way, tec, you got back to preaching about how marriage has this ancient historical tradition of being between one man and one woman the last few pages.  Please respond to my question about how this is, well, true.  Through most of history polygamy has been the norm amongst people who could afford it.  I particularly love the fact that most proponents of "traditional marriage" have religiously saturated arguments, while - as I specifically mentioned - King David and most of the other Biblical kings of the Israelites had many wives and concubines.
Are you proposing that polygamous marriage has been the norm of human society over the past couple tens of thousands of years?  Or just the norm of a handful of people?
7/1/2013 2:07 PM
The norm of human society...  Historically polygamy has been legal more times and places than not, if you happened to be able to afford it.
7/1/2013 2:13 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 7/1/2013 1:15:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 12:47:00 PM (view original):
You're also an adult(at least in age).   Ask a 6 year old.   You know, the people they'll be hanging around with all day.
The 6 year old isn't going to care, because he doesn't know any better.  He's going to love his parents, just like any child would.  You're afraid he's going to be made fun of? Kids are made fun of about everything.  I was suspended for a day in middle school because some kid was relentlessly making fun of my shoes and kicking me, so I punched him in the face.  If a kid wants to make fun of you, he'll make fun of you.  Schools are getting better and better at dealing with bullying.  You can find a ton of help online and organizations whose goal is to curb the bullying that takes place.  

And it's kinda besides the point.  tec thinks children with same-sex parents aren't raised as well as opposite sex parents.  I'm thinking that's not the case, and don't totally understand the "mom teaches you one thing, dad teaches you another thing" idea.  
So you've never noticed that, physical characteristics aside, men and women are different?  Different in the way that they think, in the way that they communicate, or in the way that they approach problems or situations?

Was your relationship with your mother exactly the same as the relationship with your father when you were growing up?

Is that true for all of your friends and co-workers?
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