5/7/2013 1:15 PM
Not allowing an individual to eat in an establishment or drink out of the same fountain, and putting a noose around his neck if he tried, is NOTHING like telling a couple of dudes they can't call their union a "marriage" and giving them a court date if they insist.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being braindead, how stupid are you for thinking it's comparable?
5/7/2013 1:23 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/7/2013 1:15:00 PM (view original):
Not allowing an individual to eat in an establishment or drink out of the same fountain, and putting a noose around his neck if he tried, is NOTHING like telling a couple of dudes they can't call their union a "marriage" and giving them a court date if they insist.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being braindead, how stupid are you for thinking it's comparable?
Once again, they are clearly not the same thing yet we can look back and see that separate but equal is a mistake.
5/7/2013 1:24 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/7/2013 12:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 5/7/2013 12:16:00 PM (view original):
They're asking for both. It's not one or the other and they're choosing SSM. They'll be happy to take equal rights for unions but will also ask for it to be called SSM.
Why would you need equal rights with civil unions if you're allowed to be married?  Wouldn't that make civil unions obsolete?
Civil unions with equal rights is part of SSM.  So obviously gays would accept that.  And then ask for it to be called marriage.  Asking for marriage doesn't mean they wouldn't accept equal rights if that was on the table.  Unless I'm missing something, but I don't think that's happened.
5/7/2013 1:25 PM
I'll take that as a 10. 
5/7/2013 1:30 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 5/7/2013 1:24:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/7/2013 12:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 5/7/2013 12:16:00 PM (view original):
They're asking for both. It's not one or the other and they're choosing SSM. They'll be happy to take equal rights for unions but will also ask for it to be called SSM.
Why would you need equal rights with civil unions if you're allowed to be married?  Wouldn't that make civil unions obsolete?
Civil unions with equal rights is part of SSM.  So obviously gays would accept that.  And then ask for it to be called marriage.  Asking for marriage doesn't mean they wouldn't accept equal rights if that was on the table.  Unless I'm missing something, but I don't think that's happened.
No. The only thing you might be missing is Mike's faux outrage at an analogy.
5/7/2013 1:35 PM
BL, Mike's argument is this "separate but equal" scenario is not NEARLY as bad as what happened with African-Americans, so it doesn't necessarily have to be treated the same way.  And I get the analogy, and I'm with you, but it doesn't feel right.  I'd try to argue in a different way, this isn't going anywhere.
5/7/2013 1:41 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 5/7/2013 1:35:00 PM (view original):
BL, Mike's argument is this "separate but equal" scenario is not NEARLY as bad as what happened with African-Americans, so it doesn't necessarily have to be treated the same way.  And I get the analogy, and I'm with you, but it doesn't feel right.  I'd try to argue in a different way, this isn't going anywhere.
Sure, it's not nearly as bad. But it's still bad, which is my entire point. We know better.
5/7/2013 1:45 PM
It's not comparable.   No one is being physically damaged by the current laws.   I'd argue that no one is really being mentally damaged by the current laws but I'm sure one or two couples might be heartbroken because their civil union isn't called a "marriage".

Not comparable.  At all.   No matter how many times you say it is.
5/7/2013 1:53 PM
As minor of a scale as it is...it's an argument of separate but equal.  That's what the argument is, that it's wrong.
 
However, the other aspect of this is that "separate but equal" when it relates to the Civil Rights movement is that a lot of the things weren't very equal at all.  The argument just doesn't work very well, BL.
5/7/2013 1:59 PM
Once again, they are clearly not the same thing yet we can look back and see that separate but equal is a mistake.

Is it a mistake?

If so, why do we still have separate (and equal?) restrooms for men and women?

Someone should sue! Let's all use the same toilets, **** it!
5/7/2013 2:01 PM

One could argue men's restrooms vs. women's restrooms using that argument.    One could but it would be dumb.  Much like SSM of today vs. civil rights of the 60s.

5/7/2013 2:12 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 5/7/2013 1:53:00 PM (view original):
As minor of a scale as it is...it's an argument of separate but equal.  That's what the argument is, that it's wrong.
 
However, the other aspect of this is that "separate but equal" when it relates to the Civil Rights movement is that a lot of the things weren't very equal at all.  The argument just doesn't work very well, BL.
Well, right now, things aren't separate but equal for gays. Even in the states where civil unions are granted, the rights given aren't as broad as they are for married couples.
5/7/2013 2:13 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/7/2013 2:01:00 PM (view original):

One could argue men's restrooms vs. women's restrooms using that argument.    One could but it would be dumb.  Much like SSM of today vs. civil rights of the 60s.

Is there a reason we keep public restrooms restricted to one gender or is it arbitrary?
5/7/2013 2:28 PM
Everyone here seems cool with allowing the same rights for gays re: civil unions.  The argument is "is that the same?" and I'm arguing no.

It's not arbitrary that we separate restrooms for men and women.  There are reasons.  There are also reasons to not allow gay marriage, as poor as they are, IMO.  So we're spinning in circles.
5/7/2013 2:36 PM
bad_luck is funny.  He latches on to a new "catchphrase" and repeats it over and over.

I'm looking forward to how many more times he says something along the lines of "separate but equal is a mistake" today.
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