All Forums > SimLeague Basketball > Theme Leagues > ODL LXII Team Rosters & Commentary
3/24/2013 12:54 PM (edited)
Rosters

1. jethroeg - Wilt Chamberlain, Kevin Johnson, Willis Reed, Drazen Petrovic, Adrian Dantley,                  
2. seapilots Lebron James, Larry Nance, Gerald Wallace, Emeka Okafor, Nate McMillian               
3. scudmissle Michael Jordan, Donyell Marshall, Kevin Love, Samuel Dalembert, Maurice Cheeks            
4. banditone Moses Malone, Paul Pierce, Spencer Haywood, Chuck Person, Don Buse,            
5. xxevilivexx 
Dennis Rodman, Dikembe Mutombo, Tracy McGrady, Jose Calderon,             
6. mikee1
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Oscar Robertson, Horace Grant, Wes Unseld, Jason Terry,                  
7. 98average
Dwight Howard, Elton Brand, Mookie Blaylock, Patrick Ewing, Rodney McCray              
8. dh555
Dwayne Wade, Bill Walton, Mel Daniels, Jerry West, Bo Outlaw,                    
9. coachcroft -  
Shaquille O'Neal, Brent Barry, Manu Ginobili, Andrei Kirilenko, AC Green,              
10. theyard2 - Karl Malone, Robert Parish, James Harden, Charles Oakley, Andre Iguodala,               
11ncmusician- Charles Barkley, Chauncey Billups, Serge Ibaka, Joakim Noah, Joe Dumars,                            
12. felonius -
Bill Russell, Clyde Drexler, Gary Payton, Carlos Boozer, Paul Millsap,              
13. ashamael -
David Robinson, Marcus Camby, Steve Nash, Cedric Maxwell, Stephen Curry,           
14. cmcafeeky -
Chris Paul, Kevin McHale, Tom Boerwinkle, Reggie Miller, Dirk Nowitzki,       
15. skypilot -
Hakeem Olajuwon, Rajon Rondo, Marques Johnson, Sydney Moncrief, Clifford Ray,              
16. tadmand -
Kevin Garnett, Scottie Pippen, Bobby Jones, Bob McAdoo, Gus Johnson,           
17. jhsukow -
Larry Bird, Deron Williams, Swen Nater, Shawn Kemp, Toni Kukoc,            
18. poppapomp -
Artis Gilmore, Anfernee Hardaway, Alex English, Anthony Mason, Alvin Robertson,     
19. smokey57 -
Julius Erving, Bob Lanier, Terry Porter, Bill Bridges, Kermit Washington,        
20. krishnaman - Ben Wallace, Tyson Chandler, Amare Stoudemire, Mark Price,     
21. eleibowitz -
Magic Johnson, Tim Duncan, Antonio McDyess, Wesley Person,
22. natenoy -
Jerry Jucas, John Stockton, Alonzo Mourning, Kobe Bryant,
23. vancem -
Kevin Durant, Shawn Marion, Pau Gasol, Charlie Ward,
24. tarheel1991 -
Jason Kidd, Ray Allen, Andrew Bynum, Buck Williams, Andrew Bogut,

3/16/2013 8:18 PM (edited)
This was my 'big board' going into this season's draft.

1. Wilt
2. Lebron
3. Worm
4. MJ
5. Kareem
6. Howard
7. Moses
8. Mailman
9. Shaq
10. Barkley
11. Admiral
12. (guy who hasn't been taken) edit:  Artis Gilmore was this guy
3/16/2013 7:40 PM
yeah, ash, i drafted 3rd, was debating between rodman and MJ. only reason went with jordan ... never had him before. not the wisest of reasons, but i'm used to being not wise.
3/16/2013 8:17 PM
Well, MJ is never a bad choice.  The only guy I would definitely take over MJ (every time) is Lebron.

MJ gives you a good rebounding advantage from the guard spot, gains you further positives in the possession battle by having an extremely low tov%, frees you up from having to take other higher usage guys (stacking specialists = good financial sense), gives you a dynamic defender at 3 positions (allowing you to draft someone with less defense than you would ideally have or allows you to make this a strength of the squad) and makes others around him shoot better with his good (for a sg) assist%.  Not many 1st tier usage guys with 55% efg, either (Jordan, Mailman and a limited minute Shaq season).  I'm assuming the usage of 89-90 Jordan as I write this.  I'd rather focus around Kareem or Howard, but with the quality of players available by the time you get to pick again, I feel like you can compliment Jordan better than those other guys.

Worm just... allows you to do so many other things and still maintain a rebounding competitiveness if not edge.

3/16/2013 8:36 PM
yep, 89-90 jordan with his 92-3's made.

kind of happy shaq and mailman were picked before you could take those guys. a relief, actually. then u get the admiral. when it rains, it comes down in buckets. 
3/16/2013 8:48 PM
Alright... some people wondered why some dissed Olajuwon in the draft thread, so here's the answer.  Many of you have read this before, but we have several new faces, so I guess I'll go on my rant.

Olajuwon... he was one of the best ever, but this sim is a stats-driven thing... and Olajuwon's stats really aren't up to snuff anywhere.


To win in the sim, you want to gain advantage in either the shooting struggle or the possession battle.  Win both and you've got a much more realistic shot at winning everything.  The third factor is the foul factor.  Let's examine how the Dream fails to win you any of these three facets of the game.

Shooting Struggle.  The best overall seasons of the dream have pretty average efg%.  A 2nd-tier usage player that only gives you 52-53% from the field is okay, but not when you compare what you could get for the same price.  He doesn't give you the easy points from the paint nor does he give you threes.  He just gives you average consistency from midrange (this factors in later)  He does give you some great defense, so that helps a little, but doesn't make up for the fact that he'll be taking the majority of your team's shots at a lower make percentage than most other players.  Let's take a look at some of the other 1st round picks, shall we?

Wilt - tier 4 usage, 68% fg
Lebron - tier 1 or tier 2 usage, 54-55%
MJ - tier 1, 55%
Kareem - tier 2, 57%
Howard - tier 2, 59%
Mosees - tier 3, 55%
Mailman - tier 1, 56%
Shaq - tier 2, 58-60%
Barkley - tier 3, 60%
Admiral - tier 3, 55%
Gilmore - tier 3, 58%

I can't compare him to many other guys because they haven't been drafted yet, but there are *many* other guys that give you better shooting (either easy points from the paint or bombs from beyond).  Dream's best shooting season is below 54%.


So what about the possession battle?  The Dream is, for the most part, an average rebounder when it comes to this sim.  His most expensive season is average for the pf/c positions (less than 35% creb).  He does have some pretty good rebounding seasons, but that leads me to the major point about him, which will follow after the foul factor.  The dream is also below average when it comes to turning the ball over.  He does gives you some steals, but all-in-all, you come up even at best.

Foul factor... If you can foul less than your opponent, you have a great chance at disrupting his chances at winning.  To do this, you need to draft low foul guys who get to the line a ton.  Olajuwon fouls a ton and doesn't get to the line for a good percentage of his possessions most seasons.  A couple of seasons are decent in this respect, but not many.  In addition, he doesn't have a high paint%, so it's hard to create the extreme inside-outside tension to cause even more foul problems.  A couple of seasons do, but... and here's why Olajuwon is just not that great...

None of the seasons where Olajuwon has these strengths line up with one another.  His best rebounding seasons have just barely over 50% fg.  His best shooting season is high foul, high turnover and weak defensive boards (excellent offensive board season, however).  His 2nd best shooting season is extremely weak on the offensive boards (less than 30% overall rebounding).  The season that he gets to the line the most?  Low fg%, high fouls.  His high paint% season?  Doesn't get to the line a ton (so doesn't create that in-out tension) and shoots just 50%.

If you could pick and choose what you wanted from different Olajuwon seasons, you could make a really good player that should be picked in the 15-25 range.  As it is, he doesn't help you win the shooting struggle, the possession battle or the foul factor, so he's, in my experience, at best a late 2nd round pick (decent to team up with Rodman, for example).

You might look at (say) David Robinson and say that he doesn't give you any more boards than the Dream... and you'd be mostly correct.  You might say that he only shoots 3% better from the field... and I'd say only three percent better?!  Three percent is huge!  You might say Robinson only shoots a couple hundred more free throws than Olajuwon... and I'd say in many fewer possessions!  Okay, well, Robinson's better than Olajuwon, but Gilmore fouls just as much and turns the ball over more.  But Gilmore gets many more rebounds, plays way more minutes and shoots way better from the floor.  Olajuwon has better defense, you might say, but I'll take 6% fg% over 20 defense any day.

The Dream (sadly, because he was one of my favorite players of all-time) just doesn't have that whole enchilada... that kitchen sink... that everything-my-team-needs package that you're looking for in the first round.

Can you win an ODL title with Hakeem?  Sure.  Should he be picked ahead of Gilmore (and a bunch of other guys I can't list b/c they haven't been drafted)?  Not in this guy's opinion.
3/16/2013 8:57 PM
Posted by scudmissle on 3/16/2013 8:36:00 PM (view original):
yep, 89-90 jordan with his 92-3's made.

kind of happy shaq and mailman were picked before you could take those guys. a relief, actually. then u get the admiral. when it rains, it comes down in buckets. 
I'd much rather have either of those guys, but I'll happily take the Admiral.  I've messed up two teams with him before, so I owe him better this time.

I was quite torn between him & Gilmore though.  I've won more with Gilmore... and Gilmore gives better boards & fg%, but it's easier to feature a 26% usage guy than a 23% one.  Plus, the Admiral is a much better defender who lives at the line.

I haven't got Barkley in the ODL in 4 years now.  Sadface.

3/16/2013 9:08 PM
I haven't used a Barkley season in any league in quite a while, but he's easy to build around in this league.  Ashamael, I'll do my best to build a title contender around Barkley :-).  On a side note, I don't think Dr J should be picked this early, thoughts?  Also, I guess I'm slightly surprised that Gilmore is in ur top 12.
3/16/2013 9:46 PM
It's impossible to argue with the logic presented about Hakeem. As a newbie in this league, I guess I still see Hakeem as a jack-of-all trades that you can build around with other specialists. As others get drafted Ash, I'd love to hear about what guys you place ahead of him. I also like Dr.J for some of the same reasons, but I acknowledge that with 0 rings, I'm far from an expert.
3/16/2013 10:12 PM
He's in my top 12 centers, not my top 12 overall. I have a 12 player list at each position. I was picking for Poppa, so I chose the best center available. I do things a little different and I didn't want to mess up his draft. I guess it worked out Poppa showed up minutes after I picked for him and I think he kept Gilmore.
3/16/2013 10:23 PM
I could have picked Gilmore but his defense is bad, he fouls too much and he plays only one position.  This is my first ODL but it seems flexibility will be very important. I do not want to get to the point where I have to draft a position and there are much better players available at other positions.That's my 2 cents for what it is worth.
3/16/2013 10:33 PM
About Julius..hmmm. It's a matter of team dynamics, Dr J brings the whole package, he has no real weakness that I'll have to compensate for while drafting the rest of the team. The SF position is the most difficult position to fill, in my mind. I say I have 12 players at each position, but thats somewhat of a lie, at SF I have 8 players and then I have to change my FG% filter to get the last 4. At SF LBJ is a beast, he will trip/doub more than any player I've seen, but his def is good not great. I feel LBJ's big games come when they come, not neccessarily when they're needed. Larry Bird is one of the most consistant players on WIS, he will make your opponent turn the ball over more than any other player. Both LBJ & Bird are definately cornerstone/marque players and always great picks. (cont)
3/16/2013 10:40 PM (edited)
@Tad:  How is 80 defense bad?

@nc:  3400+ minutes of 3rd tier usage, 58% scorer, almost 40% creb & 80 defense.  Fouls a lot, turns the ball over a lot, but still very solid.  Also gives you usage flexibility because he has several nice 4th tier seasons in case you come across a stud or two later on.

3/16/2013 10:36 PM
I havent drafted a 42m team in awhile and we dont have rookies so I think that flexibility is (especially economically) is going to be a big thing (which explains my own choice)
3/16/2013 10:37 PM
I agree with it being early for Dr. J.  He's best suited for SG with his rebounding... but he doesn't give you any threes (or any worth mentioning).  He's only average efg% (unless you use the 81-82 season, which is quite nice... but again, no 3s).  His only season that he's good enough at rebounding where I'd think about using him at the three is again, average fg% on a tier-2 usage player.  Again, these guys can be won with... I just think they go way too early for the success I've seen with them.

LBJ is a point guard (or shooting guard at most) in this league.  He is NOT a SF.  Bird is better used at SG, but I've seen nobody do that in this league (ever).

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