If you moved on, why are you still crying about it?

Posted by chichisteve on 3/4/2013 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Fight me early-fine, we both like the same recruit and all is fair, we both know what we are getting in to, choose to fight me late-fine but I will remember and the favor will be returned at some point...

you know, I see people post stuff like this from time to time, even experienced coaches that I respect, and I always think its bullshit. Its just the way recruiting is. Sometimes if you are in a battle and need to reserve funds for defense you might not feel secure about going out and trying to land other recruits til that last cycle. If I have to do it that way, I will. If folks have to hold a grudge or some other childish bs, that's on them I guess.

Posted by chichisteve on 3/4/2013 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Fight me early-fine, we both like the same recruit and all is fair, we both know what we are getting in to, choose to fight me late-fine but I will remember and the favor will be returned at some point...

Why?  What is so wrong about fighting for a player.

I always look at (local) guys who are considering other teams.  Espicially if you are a good coach and more than 400 miles away.

I agree with trentonjoe.

If a good coach from 400 plus miles away is being considered by a guy 50 miles from me that I somehow didn't already see, I may want to battle him (depending upon a number of other factors) to get the guy since I have the cost savings advantage of being closer.

Posted by Reisscards on 3/4/2013 2:06:00 PM (view original):
If you moved on, why are you still crying about it?

I wasn't aware I was crying...thanks for point that out to me...LOL

"...when you are in a battle with someone else...do you make a recruit action like a phone call, HV or CV every cycle or do you wait a cycle or 2 before making continuing efforts?"

Once you have determined that the battle is one you can win (based on prestige, distance, openings, and post-season money), you need to guess how much the other coach can spend and how much the other coach will likely spend to land the recruit (based on openings and needs). At DIII, you can generally make a big shift in a battle with something like 2 CVs + 10 minutes. I would spend all of that in one cycle. Early in recruiting, my goal would be to knock the other coach off of the recruit to hopefully discourage them from spending more. Sometimes this works. In a close battle for a recruit that I have to have (last piece in a deep NT run), I would take a guess at how much the other coach would be willing to commit, and I would spend some amount in one cycle that approaches my estimate.

Without doing a lot of brainstorming here, the times where I just do a little at a time are when: 1) I know I can't win a battle, but I don't think the other coach really wants the recruit, and 2) I am confident that I can win, but I want to conserve my money.

Posted by dacj501 on 3/4/2013 2:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by chichisteve on 3/4/2013 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Fight me early-fine, we both like the same recruit and all is fair, we both know what we are getting in to, choose to fight me late-fine but I will remember and the favor will be returned at some point...

you know, I see people post stuff like this from time to time, even experienced coaches that I respect, and I always think its bullshit. Its just the way recruiting is. Sometimes if you are in a battle and need to reserve funds for defense you might not feel secure about going out and trying to land other recruits til that last cycle. If I have to do it that way, I will. If folks have to hold a grudge or some other childish bs, that's on them I guess.

+1

The game here isnt just about one recruit.  It is about long term success.  Maintaining peace with conference teams can have value.  Maintaining peace with others has value.  Of course, those values while meaningful are not infinite.  In some circumstances the optimum approach will be to battle early or battle late.

In my experience, I rarely see the balance of calculations leading me to start a battle right before signings.  Almost always, the opportunity is not ripe or the costs - in budget and otherwise, are too high.

What does "maintaining peace" mean?   I am in the CAA in Tark and we beat the snot out of each other each recruiting season.   It's awesome.  Those namby pampy conference that "respect each other's recruits" are for wimpy poos.

I'm not saying that I will go and actively go screw up someones recruiting because we were in a previous battle.  Not good strategy and in the end it could really mess your team up.  However, if the opportunity represents itself and I really want the recruit then it is game on.  I will also agree with Trenton on the fact that  if I see a good recruit in my back yard late and say my recruiting is not going as planned, I will take a look at that recruit if the team that is recruiting is more than 400 miles away.  I would expect any good coach to do the same to me if I was in their backyard. 

Can't blame anyone for having a sour taste in their mouth after losing a recruit in the signing cycle. Anyone who says it doesn't bother them a little is lying, especially if you have any enthusiasm about this game. I always say I know it's legal but it's still a dirty tactic in my opinion. I just don't think the move should be possible (unless you're at a huge distance or prestige disadvantage) for an opposing coach to be able to drop 20-30k on a player in one cycle to be considered. I feel there should be caps per cycle to stop this. Again if you are at a disadvantage by distance or prestige, you will most likely lose the recruit anyway. But for a coach to just be able to sit back and watch others battle for recruits them unload half their budget in one cycle is smart but unrealistic to me.  

Have you ever been involved in recruiting?   Because what you say is unrealistic happens all the time.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 3/4/2013 5:25:00 PM (view original):
What does "maintaining peace" mean?   I am in the CAA in Tark and we beat the snot out of each other each recruiting season.   It's awesome.  Those namby pampy conference that "respect each other's recruits" are for wimpy poos.

do you guys beat the snot out of each other? thats good. i hope that means all of you. i know one of the guys has sent sitemails to d1 coaches trying to avoid battles/find out their intentions, so im glad to know you are there to beat the snot out of him. there are some other real cool dudes in the cal CAA too, i hope they are beating the snot out of him, as well. we get into a fair number of battles over in the GLV, i think its pretty common for strong d2 conferences.

I don't know what you are implying but no one is safe in our conference.   There are 5-10  long battles  each season.  We have four or so A level teams and another 4 B prestege teams that fight each other from AZ to WA.  It's not unusual to sink 8-10K into a player and lose.  We also have guys that jump on recruits late.  It's a blood bath.   It's like DI but without the ridiculous prestege multiplier.

Now with that being said, be forewarned that we (or at least most of us) prepare for the incursion of the GLV and other outsiders.  We generally earn as much NT money as the other conferences so we bring guns to your knife fight.

I think it is has been a good 6 seasons since an outsider (not in DI) has landed one of our "prize" recruits.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 3/5/2013 2:38:00 PM (view original):
I don't know what you are implying but no one is safe in our conference.   There are 5-10  long battles  each season.  We have four or so A level teams and another 4 B prestege teams that fight each other from AZ to WA.  It's not unusual to sink 8-10K into a player and lose.  We also have guys that jump on recruits late.  It's a blood bath.   It's like DI but without the ridiculous prestege multiplier.

Now with that being said, be forewarned that we (or at least most of us) prepare for the incursion of the GLV and other outsiders.  We generally earn as much NT money as the other conferences so we bring guns to your knife fight.

I think it is has been a good 6 seasons since an outsider (not in DI) has landed one of our "prize" recruits.

i didnt mean to imply anything. i mostly really like the guys in your conference (the ones i know, anyway). i was just glad to hear you guys beat up on each other a lot, because i know that one dude (with one of the better programs) does some fishy stuff (he once sitemailed an alt account trying to get info about a recruit i was after with a low d1 team in the area, a guy he was after too, i think. been a while, dont remember exactly, but it was pretty shady). so i was glad to hear he at least takes beatings from conference mates. thats all. i both like and respect your conference, even post positive comments on your recruiting posts from time to time.

i think its been about 6 seasons since i stole a cali recruit off one of your better schools, so i can buy the last comment :) im trying to remember who, i think i took him off UCSD and one other school might have been in the frey, too. cant remember the guy now, might have been a juco. definitely dont try that with a knife, im not big on knife fights, but ill remember for next time - bring a tank ;)