All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > Gridiron Dynasty Beta > Defense Formations: Am I Missing Something?
2/17/2013 11:06 AM
Can we blitz with the OLB in the 3-4, 4-3, 4-4 or 5-2? If not does anyone know why, and if we can how?



2/18/2013 12:15 AM
This is probably a topic of discussion we need to have.  One of the things I wanted to do with the formations is to lock certain slots into certain roles, rather than have every slot have optional settings.  If a slot in the formation says Line "something", it means they are playing at the line on both rushing and passing plays.  If they are not set to Line "something" then they are considered to be dropping into cover (for passing plays).  Those guys that will normally drop into cover can be set to "blitz", which I know technically some of those guys set to Line should be considered blitzers as well.  It's possible we could allow you to set each slot to Line or Cover, but I wanted to lock certain formations into certain options so they actually have some difference.

If you see any settings on the defense that would make more sense if they were different, please let me know.  I admittedly do not know as much about the nuances of the real life defenses as some of you guys.  But keep in mind we might have to keep the options limited.
2/18/2013 1:12 AM
I definitely think a LB in the 4-3 should be able to blitz.
2/18/2013 11:16 AM
Posted by tiggerta on 2/18/2013 1:12:00 AM (view original):
I definitely think a LB in the 4-3 should be able to blitz.
An LB in the 4-3 CAN blitz.  Remember that blitzing is really just sending more players then normal (which is typically 4 defenders).  In the 4-3, you have 4 players already at the line with the DL.  The fact that we have 2 LBs in the 4-3 also designated at the line means we are sort of locking those players in to always blitz.  This is what I want to discuss and figure if there is a better way to handle this.  If we change this to where those 3 LB are not set to the line and you can optionally set them to blitz then we definitely will need to be able to blitz more than one player.

So currently in the 4-3 you have 2 LB that are blitzing (sending 6 players) and you have the option of having that 3rd LB to blitz.  In the 3-4, you have 3 DL and 2 LB at the line, which you normally have 1 LB at the line and then blitz with additional LBs.  In our case for the 3-4, we are set to always have that 2nd LB blitz (sending 5 players).

If we were to lock the formations into the 4-player idea, then 3-4 would change to where one LB would be locked in to the Line and 4-3 would change to where no LBs would be locked in at the Line, and blitzing options would have to be more robust.

The other formations go away from the 4-player idea, but I still want to examine them with respect to which player slots should be locked in to Line play.
2/18/2013 3:09 PM
Norbert, are you saying that the 3-4 we always have the 2 OLB blitzing? Is there a difference between "at the line" and "blitzing"? I would think a LB playing "at the line" would mean he was playing the run first and dropping back into coverage 2nd, but if "at the line" means he's actually blitzing the QB on every play and we have no other choices with both of our OLB's that isn't good...
2/18/2013 3:11 PM
Maybe I should expand. Instead of having both OLB's automatically blitz, or any for that matter, I think we should have the option to blitz them or drop them into coverage.
2/18/2013 6:04 PM
First, I apologize for the 2 posts above not being as clear as they should have been. I didn't understand exactly what Norbert was saying but do now. The "4 men at the line" is fine when running the 4-3, 4-4 or nickle, but when running any other defense I believe the DL should be the only players that are automatically rushing the QB. I think we should have the option to blitz 1, 2 or more of the LB's and DB's, maybe up to a set number of defensive players, maybe 8 max? I mean if I am setting my playbook against trips I would like to be able to be able to blitz up to 6 players and still leave a LB or DB in coverage for every eligible receiver. Not that I would do this very often, and may very well never, but I would still like the option.
I also believe that setting your game plan to play Vs. run or pass should dictate if your LB's are playing at the line of scrimmage (Vs. run) or dropping back into coverage (Vs. pass). In other words we have the option to blitz, which happens regardless of whether we're playing Vs. run or pass. If we DO NOT blitz the Vs. run or pass setting should dictate where the LB's are playing. Run would put them at the LOS while pass would drop them into coverage. Am I making sense?

2/18/2013 11:11 PM
I agree with Coach Deen.
2/19/2013 11:24 AM
Posted by coach_deen on 2/18/2013 6:04:00 PM (view original):
First, I apologize for the 2 posts above not being as clear as they should have been. I didn't understand exactly what Norbert was saying but do now. The "4 men at the line" is fine when running the 4-3, 4-4 or nickle, but when running any other defense I believe the DL should be the only players that are automatically rushing the QB. I think we should have the option to blitz 1, 2 or more of the LB's and DB's, maybe up to a set number of defensive players, maybe 8 max? I mean if I am setting my playbook against trips I would like to be able to be able to blitz up to 6 players and still leave a LB or DB in coverage for every eligible receiver. Not that I would do this very often, and may very well never, but I would still like the option.
I also believe that setting your game plan to play Vs. run or pass should dictate if your LB's are playing at the line of scrimmage (Vs. run) or dropping back into coverage (Vs. pass). In other words we have the option to blitz, which happens regardless of whether we're playing Vs. run or pass. If we DO NOT blitz the Vs. run or pass setting should dictate where the LB's are playing. Run would put them at the LOS while pass would drop them into coverage. Am I making sense?

For the run vs pass (play call), it does actually set the LBs to line for rush defense or cover for pass defense.  Also, DBs are always in cover unless they blitz, so I think they are okay.  Likewise, DLs always play the line regardless of play call.  So I think the question boils down to what do we do about LBs.

Here's something I could do.  I could allow the option of setting any LB to "Line" or "Cover".  If they are Line, then they always blitz.  If they are Cover, then you can set a blitz distribution and they will only blitz if they are chosen to blitz for the play.  I think that might give us all the options we need for LBs. Does that sound correct?

Then we need to also figure out how to designate blitzes of more than 1 player on plays.  Right now, for each play you set the chance that 1 player blitzes on a play.  How can you designate that you want 2 players to blitz in some cases and 1 player in others?  Unless it's always X number blitz, we'd have to figure that out.

2/19/2013 1:10 PM
Posted by norbert on 2/19/2013 11:24:00 AM (view original):
Posted by coach_deen on 2/18/2013 6:04:00 PM (view original):
First, I apologize for the 2 posts above not being as clear as they should have been. I didn't understand exactly what Norbert was saying but do now. The "4 men at the line" is fine when running the 4-3, 4-4 or nickle, but when running any other defense I believe the DL should be the only players that are automatically rushing the QB. I think we should have the option to blitz 1, 2 or more of the LB's and DB's, maybe up to a set number of defensive players, maybe 8 max? I mean if I am setting my playbook against trips I would like to be able to be able to blitz up to 6 players and still leave a LB or DB in coverage for every eligible receiver. Not that I would do this very often, and may very well never, but I would still like the option.
I also believe that setting your game plan to play Vs. run or pass should dictate if your LB's are playing at the line of scrimmage (Vs. run) or dropping back into coverage (Vs. pass). In other words we have the option to blitz, which happens regardless of whether we're playing Vs. run or pass. If we DO NOT blitz the Vs. run or pass setting should dictate where the LB's are playing. Run would put them at the LOS while pass would drop them into coverage. Am I making sense?

For the run vs pass (play call), it does actually set the LBs to line for rush defense or cover for pass defense.  Also, DBs are always in cover unless they blitz, so I think they are okay.  Likewise, DLs always play the line regardless of play call.  So I think the question boils down to what do we do about LBs.

Here's something I could do.  I could allow the option of setting any LB to "Line" or "Cover".  If they are Line, then they always blitz.  If they are Cover, then you can set a blitz distribution and they will only blitz if they are chosen to blitz for the play.  I think that might give us all the options we need for LBs. Does that sound correct?

Then we need to also figure out how to designate blitzes of more than 1 player on plays.  Right now, for each play you set the chance that 1 player blitzes on a play.  How can you designate that you want 2 players to blitz in some cases and 1 player in others?  Unless it's always X number blitz, we'd have to figure that out.

I think that this will work fine where you allow the LBs to be set either to Line or Cover ... if they are set to Line, then they Blitz ... if they are set to cover, you can make them blitz.

Then, you can create plans that have 1 or 2 guys blitzing all the time if you want.
2/20/2013 12:08 PM
I could allow the option of setting any LB to "Line" or "Cover".  If they are Line, then they always blitz.  If they are Cover, then you can set a blitz distribution and they will only blitz if they are chosen to blitz for the play.  I think that might give us all the options we need for LBs. Does that sound correct?

Perfect, this would absolutely solve that problem! As far as blitzing 1 or more I need a day to look at it but I believe I may have an idea...
2/20/2013 2:01 PM
If you implement the line/cover option for LBs, would we be able to vary the setting based on down and distance (i.e., line/blitz for short yardage/running situations, cover for passing downs) or would we need to use the advanced playbook for that?

Also, for # of blitzers, you could have a setting similar to the blitz% for cover positions, where x% of the time you send 1 blitzer, y% 2, and so on, up to the number of players in cover mode, and have it preempt the blitz%.  For example, if the coach wanted 0 blitzers 25% of the time, 1 blitzer 50% of the time, and 2 blitzers 25% of the time, then when 0 came up, no one would blitz, when 1 came up, the blitz calculations would end after the 1st blitzer, and so on.

I also had a question on the blitz calculations.  In the game plan, there is an option for blitz % for each down/distance/formation.  Does the cover position blitz % calculate on all plays or only on the plays where a blitz is called from the game plan? i.e., if I game plan a blitz on 30% of plays in 3rd and long, is the probablity of a blitz calculated by taking the formation blitz % x the 30% blitz from the game plan, or is it just the formation blitz % regardless of the game plan settings?
2/20/2013 2:36 PM
Posted by dave75 on 2/20/2013 2:01:00 PM (view original):
If you implement the line/cover option for LBs, would we be able to vary the setting based on down and distance (i.e., line/blitz for short yardage/running situations, cover for passing downs) or would we need to use the advanced playbook for that?

Also, for # of blitzers, you could have a setting similar to the blitz% for cover positions, where x% of the time you send 1 blitzer, y% 2, and so on, up to the number of players in cover mode, and have it preempt the blitz%.  For example, if the coach wanted 0 blitzers 25% of the time, 1 blitzer 50% of the time, and 2 blitzers 25% of the time, then when 0 came up, no one would blitz, when 1 came up, the blitz calculations would end after the 1st blitzer, and so on.

I also had a question on the blitz calculations.  In the game plan, there is an option for blitz % for each down/distance/formation.  Does the cover position blitz % calculate on all plays or only on the plays where a blitz is called from the game plan? i.e., if I game plan a blitz on 30% of plays in 3rd and long, is the probablity of a blitz calculated by taking the formation blitz % x the 30% blitz from the game plan, or is it just the formation blitz % regardless of the game plan settings?
There may be some confusion on all the blitz numbers floating around, so I'll try to clear that up.

The blitz % chance on the play in the playbook is THE determining factor on if you blitz on that play.  So if you have it set to 30, then on 30% of the plays under that situation you will call for a blitz, which is currently only a 1-player blitz as in a player set to cover will actually play at the line.

The blitz numbers you see on the formations are blitz distributions which are used to determine which player (slot) is selected to blitz, IF a blitz is called on the play.  So for instance if one player is set to 66 and another is set to 33, then the first player will be twice as likely as the second in being called to blitz.

Every number on the FORMATIONS are all about distributions and roles of players (or more appropriately, the player slot).  Every number on the PLAYBOOK PLAY is all about what happens on that play.

For instance, you might set up one defensive formation where only a certain LB slot will blitz (Blitz = 100) and then have another one where the blitz chance is more distributed.  In your playbook, if you decide you don't want to risk losing some cover down field, you might choose the formation that has the one LB blitzing, while in some cases you might choose to have the blitz come from different players.  Another example is since the LBs have a predisposition to play near the line on rush defenses, you might set up a formation where the Safety or CB is more likely to blitz than an LB and use that for plays where you want to focus on rush defense.  This is where it is important for you to come up with a naming scheme so you know what your idea or purpose was for setting up different formations, so you can more easily select them when setting up your playbooks.

In many cases, I think people are going to be fine with setting up one formation (the default one) and I would expect they add new ones as they run into special circumstances where they'd like to create a more specialized play.

2/20/2013 3:21 PM (edited)
I thought that is how it would work, I just wanted to make sure.  Thanks
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