All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > Post-draft delays in progs: a proposal
2/7/2013 4:56 PM
Yet again several of us have teams sitting more than a week since completing the draft in a progressive league. About 6 months ago I had posted something almost no one liked here, suggesting that it made more sense to postpone drafts, rather than rush into them without even a moment of reflection after seasons are completed, rather than hold them only to THEN wait for a week, sometimes a month, AFTER the draft for people to get their teams in. 

It takes less than a minute to get you team in after your last draft pick. There is no way to deny this. Anyone who has completed their picks needs only moments to put their team in the league. And if people are unavailable in the middle of a draft, for more than 24 hours, they should leave proxy lists to the commissioner. 

SO, I PROPOSE THE FOLLOWING BE PRESENTED TO WIS ADMIN AS A GENERAL POLICY:

1. 24 hours after a draft ends, commissioners are empowered to declare play begun, set a schedule and allow the existing teams to begin the season. ANY TEAMS NOT POSTED AT THAT TIME WILL FORFEIT ANY GAMES THEY MISS UNTIL THE TEAM IS POSTED. 

2. ANY FORFEITED GAMES WILL COUNT AS VICTORIES FOR PURPOSES OF DRAFT POSITIONS, EXCEPT IN LEAGUES THAT DRAFT BEST TO WORST, IN WHICH CASE THEY SHALL COUNT AS DEFEATS.

3. At any point during the draft AFTER the third draft round, in which only 3 or fewer teams continue to draft and 24 hours have passed with no draft picks made, the league commissioner will be empowered to declare the draft over, assigning such picks as he or she thinks best to the remaining teams. This action declaring the end of the draft will being the 24 hour clock relevant to point 1 above. 


I am pretty sure that this will reduce delays in getting seasons started after drafts. 
2/7/2013 6:17 PM
Shouldn't this have been 'A Modest Proposal?'


2/8/2013 4:41 AM
Actually you are right akira_hokuto, but the title bar doesn't have enough space so I had to shorten it. 
2/8/2013 12:52 PM
Posted by italyprof on 2/8/2013 4:41:00 AM (view original):
Actually you are right akira_hokuto, but the title bar doesn't have enough space so I had to shorten it. 
Curses ... foiled by technology.
2/16/2013 6:58 PM
Just an update: currently in a prog league, we completed the draft on the 11th. Six days later we are still waiting to start play. I see no reason for this to happen. I think having teams forfeit games after a 48 hour period after the draft ends, and having those forfeits count as victories for purposes of draft placement, would be effective in putting an end to this stuff. 
2/16/2013 7:16 PM
I don't think that would help. 48 hours is still not a lot of real time. Granted, I always get my keepers in before the deadlines but I think that might just make those owners drop out period. I think it'd be better to give a 48 hour window and let owners know that if they are not heard from in those 48 hours, their team hits the market.


2/17/2013 9:07 AM
Bigger government, more regulations. Won't get my vote
2/17/2013 9:32 AM
There are leagues like that Steve.   The No Whining Progressive,  some of slicksticks leagues, and my man Crustydoc all run leagues that have super quick turn arounds.  Just join them.

Most of the leagues I play in (or run) have a muuuuuch slower pace, I would expect a league exodus  if guys were docked draft slots for being late entering their team.   
2/17/2013 9:42 AM
You are probably right about the last point TJ, and yes, I am in No Whining which is brilliantly and efficiently run, with a low tolerance for nonsense (even mine).

But in keeping with rback's point, maybe we need a "no secessionists" clause !

Notice by the way that when something is on one side of the political spectrum, they are called "laws" - as in "illegal immigrants" (instead of undocumented workers), but when it is on the other side, they are always referred to as "regulations", or "government mandates" (my favorite piece of political science by Palin), which are what used to be called "laws."

Ok, ok, I get it, no one likes my idea, and everyone has more tolerance for this behavior than I do, while they have less for things that seem reasonable to me - the story of my life really. Ok. But keep in mind that the more bored I am the more likely I am to keep posting pseudo-intellectual discussions of quantum physics, Taoist philosophy and long political polemics (I am thinking of you here boogerlips). So, please, put in your teams and stop me from posting again before it's too late !
2/18/2013 3:05 PM (edited)



Anyone who has played in a progressive with me knows that I have very little tolerance for delays after the draft.   

Here's another proposal, a little less draconian than italyprof's...(and yes, I know who Draco was... google him for a semi-interesting read about relative punishments..)

 

  • League commish publishes "league creation time"You have 72 hours after that to enter your team, or contact the commish for an extension ("fecal matter" happens)
  • If you miss the 72 hour deadline, you lose your 3rd round draft pick next season.  If you traded that pick already, you either need to trade to get a new one, or you lose your 2nd round pick, etc...
  • At the end of 5 seasons, all owners who were in the league for all five seasons and never missed a deadline get entered into a drawing for one of 4 "sandwich picks" between the first and second round of the 6th season. 
So, you punish the bad with a loss of a draft pick.  You reward the good with a chance for an extra pick.  Win/Win I see it.
2/18/2013 5:14 PM
Anytime you start taking something away like draft picks for late behavior without financially tying it all together will only cause desertion, IMO.
It also weakens a team that will probably be abandoned in the future thus causing it to be that much tougher to find a replacement for. Most well run teams that have responsible owners very seldom are late entering their teams. It is usually the teams that have questionable short-term owners to begin with, (again IMO). In the end I think all you are doing with that type of approach is weakening the league overall.

The only Solution I see to the problem = Have everyone submit a GC of $10-$15 (cost of a team) in order to be IN the league to start with. The first time they are late getting their team entered they forfeit the chance of getting their GC back. If it happens a 2nd time they are replaced immediately with the new owner getting a free team paid for by the GC that the late owner forfeited. Of course the new owner would have to submit a new $10-$15 GC to be in equal standing with the rest of the other owners as the league moves forward. If an owner chooses to leave the league giving a reasonably advance notice to the Commish they would get their GC back.
2/19/2013 11:29 AM
That's the beauty of it to me...

If the owner leaves, the forfeited draft pick returns to the team.  You don't punish the next owner, just the guy who's late.

I'm not into GC's.  I would never play in a league that required them, and would quit any existing league that changed it's rules to include them.
2/19/2013 3:30 PM
italyprof,

I agree that there are many leagues where owners tend to take their time entering a team and it frustrates me a great deal as you know.  HOWEVER, the other half of the equation rests with timely information from the commissioner.  What follows is a personal example:  2/10 I am informed by commissioner we are drafting AAA.  On 2/12 I draft AAA and finish at 10:00 AM.  Post in the DRAFT THREAD contains league number at 5:00 PM the same day.  Drafting for me was concluded at this point whereby I do not look at the draft forum again.  2/18 commissioner notifies me, hey, get your team in.  During the interim time there was no sitemail from the commissioner letting me know the league number other than the posting in the draft thread.  Everyone was very nice and I posted a note in the league forum as to why I was tardy.  NOW, under your scenario I would be the one punished.  Because I am ultra competitive I would not take this very well.  Any suggestions?  As one last footnote I believe "biglenr" has posted comments about commissioners posting information in a trade or draft thread that are better handled by direct sitemail with the owner. 
2/19/2013 4:05 PM
Posted by biglenr on 2/19/2013 11:29:00 AM (view original):
That's the beauty of it to me...

If the owner leaves, the forfeited draft pick returns to the team.  You don't punish the next owner, just the guy who's late.

I'm not into GC's.  I would never play in a league that required them, and would quit any existing league that changed it's rules to include them.
I didn't read between the lines in your other post so I didn't know your intention was to return the draft pick to the team if the owner left. Makes sense.

I agree the GC idea is extreme but IMO it would be very effective. Usually money has a way of making irresponsible people responsible.
2/19/2013 4:55 PM (edited)
This kind of issue toes the line to me. Yes, we expect people to be respectful of others and get teams entered in a timely manner. But also, this is a game that we need to be able to enjoy. I know I've felt the pressure of a very busy life recently and the last kind of game I want to be playing with my limited free time is one that has the stress of hard deadlines. I am usually among the first to enter my teams, so I can relate to the impatience of waiting on stragglers, but this last week was one of the rare cases where I was one of the stragglers, and I appreciate the patience of the other owners in the league.

I guess it goes back to the individual league. If moving forward quickly i important to you, join a league where that is part of the rules. If you'd rather have the flexibility, join another.

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