All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Makes me sick...
2/6/2013 12:12 AM
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/5/2013 11:56:00 PM (view original):
Nothing settled about it. I guarantee you that more than 50% of the people on this planet (including some reputable scientists) believe in some form of creation or grand design, and reject evolution. Doesn't sound like much of a consensus to me.

Do you go around saying "Obama got elected - therefore the national consensus is that a Democratic government is better"?
We aren't arguing creation. I have no idea if god created the universe (and neither does science). I do know for a fact, though, that the world is 4.5 billion years old.
2/6/2013 12:12 AM
That is settled science.
2/6/2013 12:16 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2013 12:12:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/5/2013 11:56:00 PM (view original):
Nothing settled about it. I guarantee you that more than 50% of the people on this planet (including some reputable scientists) believe in some form of creation or grand design, and reject evolution. Doesn't sound like much of a consensus to me.

Do you go around saying "Obama got elected - therefore the national consensus is that a Democratic government is better"?
We aren't arguing creation. I have no idea if god created the universe (and neither does science). I do know for a fact, though, that the world is 4.5 billion years old.
lol then again, prove it to me. present me with evidence that has no holes in it and leaves no room for reasonable doubt.

In other words, if you had to present your case to a jury who was on the fence and convince them with 100% certainty that the world was 4.5 billion years old, could you do it?

The answer...is no.
2/6/2013 12:16 AM
Ok.

I'm going to believe that Genesis isn't completely literal. That it could be true, and evolution can also be true at the same time.
2/6/2013 12:17 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/6/2013 12:17:00 AM (view original):
Ok.

I'm going to believe that Genesis isn't completely literal. That it could be true, and evolution can also be true at the same time.
That's your right, burnsy. And I won't call you a fool for doing so.
2/6/2013 12:18 AM
I wonder what Ray Lewis thinks.
2/6/2013 12:19 AM
And honestly - whatever you or I believe about the age of the earth is not a critical matter. No Christian is going to go to hell because they believed the earth to be the wrong age. If you want to believe in the PROCESS of evolution, go for it. But the Theory of Evolution pretty much denies the existence of a devine creator.
2/6/2013 12:21 AM
No it doesn't. Evolution is god neutral. Science can't prove or disprove god. Nothing in the theory of evolution precludes god. He could have very well set up the world to evolve.
2/6/2013 6:20 AM
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/5/2013 11:01:00 PM (view original):
Because I don't let the belief of scientists dictate my life?

If scientists could conclusively prove the age of the earth, I'd obviously agree - but they can't. I've examined the evidence, especially the explanations for how the earth came into being, and I believe Creationism is the most logical.

Despite the age debates, scientists cannot even determine how the universe came into existence. A fundamental rule of science is that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. So how did the universe just appear out of nothing? Something had to have created it. Do I know that my beliefs are the capital t Truth? No. But it's what makes the most sense to me.

I think Atheism is the most foolish belief system of all, simply because without some kind of higher power or devine being, there is no way to explain the universe, period.
No one has ever said it was created out of nothing.
2/6/2013 7:16 AM
"I don't know exactly how it works but that's what I've been told and taught my entire life."

Can this be applied to both theories on the age of the earth?   I think it can.


FWIW, I don't think the world is 10k old but all the "smart" guys are quoting science that I guarantee they can't explain/do.
2/6/2013 8:03 AM
Posted by moranis on 2/6/2013 6:20:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/5/2013 11:01:00 PM (view original):
Because I don't let the belief of scientists dictate my life?

If scientists could conclusively prove the age of the earth, I'd obviously agree - but they can't. I've examined the evidence, especially the explanations for how the earth came into being, and I believe Creationism is the most logical.

Despite the age debates, scientists cannot even determine how the universe came into existence. A fundamental rule of science is that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. So how did the universe just appear out of nothing? Something had to have created it. Do I know that my beliefs are the capital t Truth? No. But it's what makes the most sense to me.

I think Atheism is the most foolish belief system of all, simply because without some kind of higher power or devine being, there is no way to explain the universe, period.
No one has ever said it was created out of nothing.
It doesn't have to be said, moranis. Everything must have a beginning. If there is no devine creator, that means everything in the universe one day just magically appeared out of nowhere.
2/6/2013 8:11 AM
Two comments:

1)  The Bible is an anthology of writings collected and organized hundreds of years after the fact by a committee of people with a very specific agenda.  While many parts of it are based on historical fact, my belief is that many parts of it have been greatly embellished so that it fits the "story" that the writers and organizers want to be told.  To accept the Bible as literal fact is more a function of blind faith in one's religion than it is as a result of critical thinking.

2)  I wouldn't go as fas as claiming that a 4.5 billion year old earth is "known for a fact" and "settled science".  I would say that the overall preponderance of evidence appears to be consistent and supportive of an earth that is roughly 4.5 billion years old, and that a critical consideration of all evidence for alternate theories should lead one to the opinion that a 4.5 billion year old earth is the most likely answer.  But to claim that it is "known for a fact" and "settled science" is as foolish as claiming that the Bible should be interpreted literally as historical fact.

Now, you two may continue your dumbassery.
2/6/2013 8:16 AM
Tec - if one makes the argument in point 1, then they have to apply it with both sides. You don't think science/tests/experiments are created and conducted by people with agendas? One group "creates a story" to explain how we got here, the other "creates science" to explain how we got here.

That's been the point this entire thread. No one here knows the scientists that conducted these studies (most probably can't even understand the studies themselves). No one knows with certainty that results weren't created to "prove" a certain viewpoint. One can't say the Bible was created after the fact to support the Christian/Creationist view, and then act like it's impossible that certain scientific "evidence" could not possibly also have been created after the fact to support the Evolutionist viewpoint.
2/6/2013 8:58 AM
I will grant you that we elevate them a bit more because of their status or the "celebrity" mystique, but they're still knockouts. I see hot women everyday, but rarely see women that have my jaw dropping.

I see attractive women on a regular basis, yes, which is why women who are merely attractive are a dime a dozen.

I'm sure someone will attack this (that's what usually happens on here), but I can tell you in all honesty and seriousness that I've only ever met one woman who was jaw dropping in her beauty in my opinion. As I got to know her and found out she was also a wonderful human being, I found her more and more attractive. Luckily for me, I later found out the feeling was mutual, and the rest is history.

My standards for jaw dropping are very high, and she's honestly the only woman who has ever met them. Still, if she hadn't been a great person as well, it wouldn't have mattered the least.
The bottom line is, we find the "science" to support what we believe - our beliefs are not formed by science. Think of the most reputable scientist you can - if that scientist suddenly came out tomorrow with a detailed, scientific study supporting Creationism, you wouldn't change your tune. You'd reject it as foolish or flawed and go look for other science to support your viewpoint. And why? Because Evolution is your BELIEF SYSTEM, and you gravitate towards the things that support it.
Agreed 100 percent with this.

Funny how none of those with "majority" beliefs ever want to admit they wouldn't change those beliefs even if the people they rely on for support in those beliefs were to change.
One can't say the Bible was created after the fact to support the Christian/Creationist view, and then act like it's impossible that certain scientific "evidence" could not possibly also have been created after the fact to support the Evolutionist viewpoint.
No, Jtpsops. Don't you understand? You're not allowed to apply the same scrutiny to "majority" opinions as they get to apply to your "minority" opinion. That's part of their rules.

All of their ideas are supported by science and therefore fact. You can't question them. You can't suggest this science might be wrong and could someday be conclusively proven to be wrong. You can't suggest they might have an agenda - only people on your side can have agendas. You can't suggest equality at all - they are of the "majority" and therefore are right and you're a (insert insult here) if you disagree.

Good for you pointing out how they try to apply principles of argument to your side of it and not to their own.

2/6/2013 9:03 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 2/6/2013 8:11:00 AM (view original):
Two comments:

1)  The Bible is an anthology of writings collected and organized hundreds of years after the fact by a committee of people with a very specific agenda.  While many parts of it are based on historical fact, my belief is that many parts of it have been greatly embellished so that it fits the "story" that the writers and organizers want to be told.  To accept the Bible as literal fact is more a function of blind faith in one's religion than it is as a result of critical thinking.

2)  I wouldn't go as fas as claiming that a 4.5 billion year old earth is "known for a fact" and "settled science".  I would say that the overall preponderance of evidence appears to be consistent and supportive of an earth that is roughly 4.5 billion years old, and that a critical consideration of all evidence for alternate theories should lead one to the opinion that a 4.5 billion year old earth is the most likely answer.  But to claim that it is "known for a fact" and "settled science" is as foolish as claiming that the Bible should be interpreted literally as historical fact.

Now, you two may continue your dumbassery.
In the scientific community it is accepted as fact that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and is considered settled.

New evidence may change that one day but, right now, everything we have corroborates that age.
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