All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Makes me sick...
2/5/2013 11:22 PM
It's absolutely possible. As I told you, I wasn't around - I have no idea the exact age of the earth. My very simple point in all this is that neither do you - neither does anyone else.

No matter how much evidence is presented, there will always be plenty of "reasonable doubt" for both sides. That's why it comes down to belief. Evolution, like Creationism, is a belief system, nothing more. There's a reason it's called the THEORY of Evolution. Once something in science is proven, it becomes a LAW.
2/5/2013 11:26 PM
There is physical evidence for the world being 4.5 billion years old. There is no physical evidence that the world is 10,000 years old.

There is physical evidence for me needing oxygen to breathe, and live. There is no physical evidence that I can survive without it.

Do you see why this is difficult? If I insisted that there's an alternative theory on the necessity of oxygen in our lives, and should be taught in schools, you'd be upset with me.
2/5/2013 11:30 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/5/2013 11:27:00 PM (view original):
There is physical evidence for the world being 4.5 billion years old. There is no physical evidence that the world is 10,000 years old.

There is physical evidence for me needing oxygen to breathe, and live. There is no physical evidence that I can survive without it.

Do you see why this is difficult? If I insisted that there's an alternative theory on the necessity of oxygen in our lives, and should be taught in schools, you'd be upset with me.
Show me this physical evidence. You don't have it. You'll read me a report or some statistic from scientists. And I'll quote you the Bible or some Christian scientist.

We're no different, burnsy. We're both putting our faith in "evidence" that has been gathered by other people, and we trust what they have to say. You have not gathered this evidence yourself...you have not conducted these studies...you have not witnessed the process of evolution. You have zero authority on the subject.

And again - we pick and choose who and what we view as credible. You've written off everything related to Creationism as flawed and uncredible.

Take that link that bad_luck posted. If tomorrow there was a message on there saying "Sorry, we were wrong. New evidence shows the earth is, in fact, 10,000 years old". Do you think bad_luck would come on here and say "geez, looks like I was wrong guys. there's new evidence"? Hell no. He'd say "geez, I thought that guy was credible, but apparently he's just a quack."
2/5/2013 11:33 PM
The bottom line is, we find the "science" to support what we believe - our beliefs are not formed by science. Think of the most reputable scientist you can - if that scientist suddenly came out tomorrow with a detailed, scientific study supporting Creationism, you wouldn't change your tune. You'd reject it as foolish or flawed and go look for other science to support your viewpoint. And why? Because Evolution is your BELIEF SYSTEM, and you gravitate towards the things that support it.

The theory of Evolution is in no way superior or more factually accurate than Creationism.

2/5/2013 11:40 PM
I don't know if George Washington existed. I wasnt there to see it. Should I ignore the people who show me evidence that he did?

If scientists came out and said that the world is actually 10,000 years old, then that would then be taught in schools, and that's what I would believe. Call me crazy, but I'm not going to ignore the evidence they present, just like I don't ignore the evidence they present when it comes to most other things. And I'll believe Genesis isn't completely literal when it describes a "day" that didn't actually exist yet.
2/5/2013 11:46 PM
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/5/2013 11:34:00 PM (view original):
The bottom line is, we find the "science" to support what we believe - our beliefs are not formed by science. Think of the most reputable scientist you can - if that scientist suddenly came out tomorrow with a detailed, scientific study supporting Creationism, you wouldn't change your tune. You'd reject it as foolish or flawed and go look for other science to support your viewpoint. And why? Because Evolution is your BELIEF SYSTEM, and you gravitate towards the things that support it.

The theory of Evolution is in no way superior or more factually accurate than Creationism.

If there was a scientific consensus that the world is 10,000 years old, that's what I would go with. But the scientific consensus is that the world is 4.5 billion years old. It isn't controversial. It's settled science.
2/5/2013 11:55 PM
Nothing settled about it. I guarantee you that more than 50% of the people on this planet (including some reputable scientists) believe in some form of creation or grand design, and reject evolution. Doesn't sound like much of a consensus to me.

Do you go around saying "Obama got elected - therefore the national consensus is that a Democratic government is better"?
2/6/2013 12:01 AM
I think I've read somewhere that 1 of 4 Americans believe the Sun revolves around the Earth. Is this also not settled? I hear scientists have proof that it's the other way around. Should I be skeptical?
2/6/2013 12:04 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/6/2013 12:01:00 AM (view original):
I think I've read somewhere that 1 of 4 Americans believe the Sun revolves around the Earth. Is this also not settled? I hear scientists have proof that it's the other way around. Should I be skeptical?
Thanks for proving my point, burnsy.

You have two options: the sun rotates the earth, or the earth rotates the sun. You examine the evidence and determine what you deem most plausible.

The problem with the Evolution-Creation debate, is that it's NOT as cut and dried as you make it out to be. If you're saying that Evolution is as certain as the earth orbiting the sun, you clearly are a fool.
2/6/2013 12:05 AM
I'm done here, I don't know why I started this. One last thing - There are some messed up things in the Old Testament. Is it just Genesis that you believe word for word, or is it everything?
2/6/2013 12:06 AM
Depends what you're asking. I said I believe it's a historical document. So I believe the events recorded actually happened. Do I think the rituals from back then should be applied today? No, I don't.
2/6/2013 12:07 AM
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/6/2013 12:04:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/6/2013 12:01:00 AM (view original):
I think I've read somewhere that 1 of 4 Americans believe the Sun revolves around the Earth. Is this also not settled? I hear scientists have proof that it's the other way around. Should I be skeptical?
Thanks for proving my point, burnsy.

You have two options: the sun rotates the earth, or the earth rotates the sun. You examine the evidence and determine what you deem most plausible.

The problem with the Evolution-Creation debate, is that it's NOT as cut and dried as you make it out to be. If you're saying that Evolution is as certain as the earth orbiting the sun, you clearly are a fool.
That's your opinion.
2/6/2013 12:07 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/6/2013 12:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/6/2013 12:04:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/6/2013 12:01:00 AM (view original):
I think I've read somewhere that 1 of 4 Americans believe the Sun revolves around the Earth. Is this also not settled? I hear scientists have proof that it's the other way around. Should I be skeptical?
Thanks for proving my point, burnsy.

You have two options: the sun rotates the earth, or the earth rotates the sun. You examine the evidence and determine what you deem most plausible.

The problem with the Evolution-Creation debate, is that it's NOT as cut and dried as you make it out to be. If you're saying that Evolution is as certain as the earth orbiting the sun, you clearly are a fool.
That's your opinion.
As it is your opinion as well. Thank you for bringing this discussion full circle and proving my initial point.
2/6/2013 12:09 AM
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/6/2013 12:07:00 AM (view original):
Depends what you're asking. I said I believe it's a historical document. So I believe the events recorded actually happened. Do I think the rituals from back then should be applied today? No, I don't.
Ok, fair. I won't get into that then.

Ive heard that Noah's grandfather lived to be something like 950 years old, based on the Bible. And I didn't read it myself, so if I'm wrong, or misunderstood, I apologize. If the Bible says that, do you believe that that's true?
2/6/2013 12:09 AM
Yes, I do.
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