All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Patriots 9.5 points favorites over Ravens
2/6/2013 12:01 AM
I hate Brady - but a lot of that hate stems from the fact that there's little to hate about him. I can't bash him much because he's a good QB and as far as we can tell, a very classy guy.

If someone wanted to argue that Brady was somewhat of a "system" QB and wouldn't have had the career he's had if he was with another team, that might have some validity. But that still doesn't take away from what he's done, especially when he's had few "elite" weapons at his disposal throughout his career.

Flacco is a different story. For some reason, he just doesn't pass the "smell" test - he doesn't feel like an elite QB. He reminds me of Jake Plummer in that regard. No matter how productive he was at times, it was always followed by a "ya, but...". I give Flacco full credit for what he did this post season, but I still don't think he's elite. I also think he was very fortunate - he had some long completions on desperation heaves under pressure (which QBs are taught not to do) that easily could have been INTs. If Rahim Moore doesn't pull one of the all-time defensive blunders in Denver, we're not even having this convo.
2/6/2013 7:59 AM
"Classy" guys aren't knocking up actresses then marrying supermodels.

Has nothing to do with his ability to play QB but let's not annoint him a saint.
2/6/2013 9:02 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/6/2013 7:59:00 AM (view original):
"Classy" guys aren't knocking up actresses then marrying supermodels.

Has nothing to do with his ability to play QB but let's not annoint him a saint.
Jesus you're reaching.

He left his girlfriend before he knew she was prego.  He's since taken acre of the kid like a responsible parent.  So what if he's married another women.

My parents are both divorced and remarried.  My wife's parents are both divorced and remarried.  he father had 2 more kids.  Are they all not classy?  Please dude, shut the **** up.

You all act like Brady just met a chick at a club, knocked her up and split.  Get off your high horses.
2/6/2013 9:09 AM
You seem to labor under the belief that only you possess the ability to have a strong opinion.....amazing as it may seem to you, many people can believe the exact opposite of you, yet be every bit as convinced they are correct
Yes, they can.

All I'm saying is I have the ability and determination to argue my position well even when it is not a widely held position. If you don't respect that, you will learn to when you find out you can't bully me like so many of you try to do.
however, you belittle anyone that has a different opinion than you on this matter....
Quite the opposite. I attack no one, but the personal attacks that have come my way are from multiple sources, all equally ignorant.
So what is “quite different?” I said “basically an average QB” and you said “slightly above average QB.”  I said “would have won 6 or 7 Super Bowls” and you said “at least 5 Super Bowls.” 

You answered your own question and pointed out the differences. If you can't see them even after pointing them out yourself, then you're beyond the help I could give you.
 If "the system didn't fit him" can you explain why a more conservative system, designed to help quarterbacks not screw up, did not work for Bledsoe?

There are multiple reasons for this. Perhaps the system wasn't attempted (or attempted in the same ways) with Bledsoe. It could have been implemented around the time Brady took over, perhaps especially for Brady.

Not every QB fits well in every system. Perhaps Brady and Cassell fit the system better than he did.

The point is the system is what has made the success. Find the right QB for it and they'll be successful too - not just Brady and Cassel.
I WILL tell you, “conclusively”, that someone who electrocutes and kills dogs, that someone who cheats on his wife and has a love child, that someone who drives drunk and kills his friends, are people who have shown tendencies to be worse people than what Brady shows. 

You forgot to add the statement "in my opinion" to the beginning of this. That's the point. It's your opinion, not a fact.
You can make jokes in the Marino thread, but you’ll bash Brady for a lesser wrong. 

Again, it being a "lesser wrong" is your opinion. I disagree. I can do that.
My parents are both divorced and remarried.  My wife's parents are both divorced and remarried.  he father had 2 more kids.  Are they all not classy?  Please dude, shut the **** up.
Sounds like someone is taking this a bit too personally.

People are entitled to what they believe. You're entitled to disagree. You are NOT, however, entitled to tell them to shut up or that they can't express their opinion if they so choose.

2/6/2013 9:26 AM (edited)
So what is “quite different?” I said “basically an average QB” and you said “slightly above average QB.”  I said “would have won 6 or 7 Super Bowls” and you said “at least 5 Super Bowls.”  

You answered your own question and pointed out the differences. If you can't see them even after pointing them out yourself, then you're beyond the help I could give you.
  • I see the differences.  When you say "quite different", the assumption is that the differences are fairly stark.  

And I just want to make sure I got this right.  Brady getting his girlfriend pregnant is worse than:
  • getting a random girl pregnant while married.
  • electrocuting, beating, and killing dogs.
  • driving drunk, leading to killing your friend.
Am I right?


Not every QB fits well in every system. Perhaps Brady and Cassell fit the system better than he did. 
  • More likely?  Is that Brady is actually a great QB and performed better than Bledsoe for this reason.  That's actually much easier to explain rather than "well, maybe Bledsoe isn't capabale of playing in a conservative offense effectively.  Huh?" And maybe Cassel put up good numbers because he's capable of playing like a good QB, especially with Moss and Welker.  
  • If Cassel played in a system based on quick passing and conservative play calling, why did he lead the league in sacks?  Is he also incapable of playing a conservative style of offense?
2/6/2013 10:17 AM
I see the differences.  When you say "quite different", the assumption is that the differences are fairly stark. 


And they are. There is a world of difference between what I said and what you claimed.

So many people on these boards love to make assumptions, jump to conclusions, and twist what others have to say to allow them to attack. I will call BS on it every time I see it, but its so prevalent I wonder if any of you can actually argue a single point without doing it.

My personal judgements and yours are different. Please simply accept that and do not try to argue it.
That's actually much easier to explain rather than "well, maybe Bledsoe isn't capabale of playing in a conservative offense effectively.  Huh?"

Now you're trying to oversimplify what I'm saying, which is more BS.

It's much more complex than "a conservative offense" and you know that. NFL offenses are incredibly complex and differ from one another (and even similar methods on the same team) in many ways.

2/6/2013 10:27 AM
"My personal judgements and yours are different. Please simply accept that and do not try to argue it."

Why argue anything then?


"Now you're trying to oversimplify what I'm saying, which is more BS.

It's much more complex than "a conservative offense" and you know that. NFL offenses are incredibly complex and differ from one another (and even similar methods on the same team) in many ways."

You explained the "system" to me.  I regurgitated it back at you and applied it to Bledsoe, and your reply is essentially "No, it's much more complex than that."  So how are you so sure that Brady is successful because of a system built for him, rather than just talent he shows on the field, when you can't fully understand the system that's run, and statistical evidence states that Brady, is in fact, a great QB.
2/6/2013 1:54 PM
honestly, I don't care what your opinion is and I certainly have no desire to try and change that opinion (this has nothing to do with what I am sure you will think is my frustration over not being able to budge your olympic strength will)...its all yours and more power to you for having it





I repost this line from an earlier post so I can question directly, in what way does it appear I am trying to 'bully' you into any way of thinking?

also, it IS an attempt to belittle when you tell people they think the way that they do because they haven't the stength of mind to think for themselves.....calling people sheep is a put down, therefore you lose the deed to the high road.....
2/6/2013 1:54 PM
There is no point in arguing over whether or not one particular action is or is not worse than another in each of our opinions.

As for "the system", I told you some of the things it involves. Obviously it is more complex than anything I can tell you about it.

I am certain Brady is a system QB because he doesn't possess the skills of other QBs who excel in other systems. He's not super accurate at any distance like Kurt Warner was. He doesn't have a rifle of an arm like Brett Favre did. He can't run like a deer the way Vick, RG III, and others can.

As a result, a system was created to allow Brady to not screw up a talented team. It doesn't ask him to throw down field often unless guys are wide open and/or extremely talented (such as Moss). It doesn't ask him to sling passes into tight windows. It provides good pass protection and doesn't require him to scramble very often.

These are things Brady CANNOT do, so it is wise not to ask him to do them.

What Brady CAN do is to throw accurately on short passes and hit guys who are wide open or extremely skilled when they are down field, so the Patriots made a system that enabled him to do that. They created trick plays to get mismatches to allow the offense to operate better. Then over the years they made sure to obtain players who were good fits for the system (for example, Welker was the perfect player to give Brady a continuous underneath threat).

Again, statistical evidence suggests Brady is a slightly above average QB - far from great.
2/6/2013 1:59 PM
Statistical evidence shows that Brady is, if not the best, among the top 2 or 3 QBs in the league.

Stats
2/6/2013 2:09 PM
Sounds like someone is taking this a bit too personally.

People are entitled to what they believe. You're entitled to disagree. You are NOT, however, entitled to tell them to shut up or that they can't express their opinion if they so choose.

Actually, I'm entitled to say what ever i'd like.  That's what's beautiful with our wonderful country.

Now please.  Shut up.

Thank you.
2/6/2013 2:36 PM
Say what you want. I'll say what I want. Round and round we go, and no one is going to "shut up". Game, set, match, you lost that one.
2/6/2013 2:38 PM
Bis, did you win again? Wow, good job.

Tell us about how the presence of C14 disproves an old earth.
2/6/2013 2:50 PM
Posted by edsortails on 2/6/2013 1:54:00 PM (view original):
honestly, I don't care what your opinion is and I certainly have no desire to try and change that opinion (this has nothing to do with what I am sure you will think is my frustration over not being able to budge your olympic strength will)...its all yours and more power to you for having it





I repost this line from an earlier post so I can question directly, in what way does it appear I am trying to 'bully' you into any way of thinking?

also, it IS an attempt to belittle when you tell people they think the way that they do because they haven't the stength of mind to think for themselves.....calling people sheep is a put down, therefore you lose the deed to the high road.....
...
2/6/2013 3:47 PM
"I am certain Brady is a system QB because he doesn't possess the skills of other QBs who excel in other systems."

"These are things Brady CANNOT do, so it is wise not to ask him to do them."


Biz, you're back at square one, arguing the things you did originally.  Stats and evidence have been shown to you to prove otherwise, and you'll ignore them, and I guess that's fine.  You can see what you want to see in your obviously biased mind.


"They created trick plays to get mismatches to allow the offense to operate better."

What trick plays? When I think "Pats" I don't think "trick plays."

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