All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Patriots 9.5 points favorites over Ravens
2/8/2013 2:07 PM
By the way, I can't wait for Brady to retire and the next QB to step up. The Patriots should still win at least 10 games per year provided they can find someone who is willing and able to play within the Brady system.
2/8/2013 2:25 PM
Wins are not the main metric I use for determining what QBs are better than others.  I'm not sure where you are getting that from.
2/8/2013 2:27 PM
Please be specific and succinct in exactly how the system was different.
The basic premise is that Brady isn't asked to do things he's not good at. I explained that before, giving specific examples of things Brady isn't good at and even listing QBs who ARE good at those things. I'm not going to repeat every line because you failed to understand the first go round.



Please be specific and succinct in exactly how the system was different.  I used your definition, and gave you statistics to tell you your argument was wrong.  You then claimed I was misunderstanding.  Help me understand.  When Bledsoe threw the ball 10 yards down the field to a receiver, what was different about it then the 10 yard pass Brady threw? Is there a specific 10 yard pass that Brady is better at throwing than others?
2/8/2013 2:29 PM
Also, if you don't like the fact that one year of a player performing well says one thing, and want more data, then I'll tell you to stop using Cassel as your argument against Brady.
2/8/2013 2:41 PM
The difference in a pass from Bledsoe or Brady was essentially the decision making process.

For example, Bledsoe may have chucked the ball down the field to a deeper reciever or went through more reads and found another option, while Brady may have hit the first open guy or dumped it off for the ten yards you mention rather than hitting the deep guy.  Those are EXAMPLES and are not all the reasons why the differences occurred.

The main point is Brady would not have tried to scramble like he was Mike Vick, and in the same way, he wouldn't have tried to hit as many small windows like Kurt Warner or throw a frozen rope like Brett Favre. The reasons for ALL of these is because he didn't have the physical tools those players had which enabled them to be successful doing those things.

However, Brady (especially later in his career) IS good at locating mismatches - linebacker on a wideout or RB, for example. He is also very good (most of the time) at throwing accurate quick strikes to receivers, sometimes on hot routes he has called for them. (See, I DO give Brady some credit.)

Following that, you would expect NFL stats on Brady to show certain things. For example, you would expect him to not have very much rushing yardage, since he isn't running around in the pocket or scrambling much. You would expect he would get rid of the ball quickly, since he's good at making those short quick throws. You would expect Brady not to throw many interceptions since he's not throwing into tight windows or trying to sling the ball into tough spots. You would also expect his receivers to have high yards after catch statistics.

Are all these things absolutely true all the time? No, but they are true as a general rule.
2/8/2013 2:51 PM

The difference in a pass from Bledsoe or Brady was essentially the decision making process.

  • Brady makes better decisions?  Is that bad?


For example, Bledsoe may have chucked the ball down the field to a deeper reciever or went through more reads and found another option, while Brady may have hit the first open guy or dumped it off for the ten yards you mention rather than hitting the deep guy.  Those are EXAMPLES and are not all the reasons why the differences occurred.

  • Sounds like Brady makes better decisions to help his team win more games.


The main point is Brady would not have tried to scramble like he was Mike Vick,

  • And nobody said he could.

and in the same way, he wouldn't have tried to hit as many small windows like Kurt Warner or throw a frozen rope like Brett Favre. The reasons for ALL of these is because he didn't have the physical tools those players had which enabled them to be successful doing those things.

  • You have been given evidence that states he can do that.  You are ignoring it, and just going with what your biased eyes tell you.


However, Brady (especially later in his career) IS good at locating mismatches - linebacker on a wideout or RB, for example. He is also very good (most of the time) at throwing accurate quick strikes to receivers, sometimes on hot routes he has called for them. (See, I DO give Brady some credit.)


Following that, you would expect NFL stats on Brady to show certain things. For example, you would expect him to not have very much rushing yardage, since he isn't running around in the pocket or scrambling much.

·         Yup.

You would expect he would get rid of the ball quickly, since he's good at making those short quick throws.

·         He’s EXCELLENT at making quick decisions and being accurate within 10 yards, yes.  I'd argue he's the best in football.

You would expect Brady not to throw many interceptions since he's not throwing into tight windows or trying to sling the ball into tough spots.

·         He’s accurate, and makes good decisions.  That’s why he doesn’t throw many interceptions.

You would also expect his receivers to have high yards after catch statistics.

·         Welker, yes.

 

I’ll say it, it sounds like you described a damn good quarterback.  The difference is that you’re questioning his physical tools, which I disagree with, and you can’t show any evidence to me that states that Brady doesn’t have the ability to throw deep accurately.  You HAVE been shown evidence that states that he can.

2/8/2013 2:54 PM
OK, final word.

Joe Montana is the greatest QB of all time.

[drops mic]
2/8/2013 3:11 PM
Brady makes better decisions?  Is that bad?

Brady makes less risky decisions. It is a mistake to assume that this makes them better in every case. Sometimes I'm sure it does. In other cases it may cost the team opportunities that a better skilled QB would have taken advantage of.

Either way, it is what it is. Brady plays to his own strengths thanks to a system that supports them.
Sounds like Brady makes better decisions to help his team win more games.

Again, you're jumping to a conclusion that isn't necessarily true - this is yet another reason people over rate Brady.

Like I said, the quick easy decision isn't always the best one. It may work, but it doesn't mean a better alternative wasn't there.

To do a non-football example: Let's say you went on a game show and made decisions that won you $100K. Are those "good" decisions? Well, you won $100K, so on the surface you might think so. However, if you could have made better decisions and won $10M instead, clearly you could have done better. So while you may be thrilled with winning the 100K, you could have won 10M. If you ignore that and only care to be happy with your 100K, that's fine, but it doesn't mean you couldn't have done better.

In the same way, Brady's coaches and team are happy if he gets them down the field to score, but they could have done better if he was more skilled. Still, they take what they have and move on.
You have been given evidence that states he can do that.  You are ignoring it, and just going with what your biased eyes tell you.

The evidence doesn't suggest what you seem to think it does. I already said that. There is no point in regurgitating it again.
He’s accurate, and makes good decisions.  That’s why he doesn’t throw many interceptions.

He's conservative because the system allows him to be conservative. THAT is why he doesn't throw many interceptions.
I’ll say it, it sounds like you described a damn good quarterback. 

What I've described is a damn good SYSTEM. Like I said, when Brady retires, the team will still do just as well without him provided they find someone else who is willing and able to fit within the system designed for him.

2/8/2013 3:14 PM
Is it possible that Brady created this "system?"  Wouldn't that make Brady a great QB?
2/8/2013 3:17 PM
I don't think Brady created it - I think the coaching staff did that. Brady just plays within it because it works for him, which is smart of him to do. So I'll give him credit - he's smart enough to know what he's good at and keep doing it.
2/8/2013 3:25 PM
Is it a "system?" Or maybe Brady recognizes that he shouldn't be taking chances like Bledsoe did, considering he doesn't have great weapons? Thus, making him a smarter QB.
2/8/2013 3:27 PM
I think you give him far too much credit, but then, that HAS been my argument the entire time - that Brady is over rated.
2/8/2013 3:34 PM
He put up good numbers with below-average weapons.  He put up legendary numbers with elite weapons.  Now, he's put up great numbers with good weapons.

Is it possible that Brady is intelligent enough to know when to take chances deep down the field, knows when to throw the 6 yard out, how to recognize mismatches, just generally how to accomplish scoring enough points to win the game, while limiting the risks he takes to help avoid putting his defense in a tough spot? His TD and yardage numbers fluctuate based on the talent he has around him, but his INT numbers generally don't.  Maybe he's just very smart, while other QBs with talent, like Bledsoe, have trouble in offenses when their weapons aren't very good.

That all said - he DOES have the ability to make deep, accurate throws down the field.  
2/8/2013 4:21 PM
Posted by toddcommish on 2/8/2013 2:54:00 PM (view original):
OK, final word.

Joe Montana is the greatest QB of all time.

[drops mic]
Hahaha!  Love the mic part.

Classic.
2/8/2013 4:23 PM
burnsy, just stop.  It's been a month of this.  We've argued with him.  He HAS to have the final word.  

We all know what the truth is.  I mean, Brady will be a 1st ballot HoF'er.  Proof is in the pudding.
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All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Patriots 9.5 points favorites over Ravens

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