All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Patriots 9.5 points favorites over Ravens
1/29/2013 10:57 AM
Re: this quote from you - "The offensive line rates as one of the best in the league in most years Brady has been QB. I can also count many times each game where Brady has over 5 seconds to read the defense, which is an eternity for an NFL QB. He gets more of those chances than most QBs ever see."

To which I responded, we watch different games.  I've been trying to find something that quantifies what I see, which is Brady making quick decisions and throwing the football, compared to just having a great offensive line.  See below link.

www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/
1/29/2013 12:51 PM
Isn't is just as likely that Tom Brady is overrated as it is that Tom Brady is 10,000 years old?

I can see arguments for both, because I have an open mind about such things.
1/29/2013 1:01 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/29/2013 10:57:00 AM (view original):
Re: this quote from you - "The offensive line rates as one of the best in the league in most years Brady has been QB. I can also count many times each game where Brady has over 5 seconds to read the defense, which is an eternity for an NFL QB. He gets more of those chances than most QBs ever see."

To which I responded, we watch different games.  I've been trying to find something that quantifies what I see, which is Brady making quick decisions and throwing the football, compared to just having a great offensive line.  See below link.

www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/
Don't post a link or stats.  Biz won't open or understand.

He'll just post back a link from anti Brady bleacher report.  

Rank Name Team Drop backs To Throw
1  Russell Wilson SEA 274 3.14
2  Michael Vick PHI 366 3.12
3  Cam Newton CAR 266 3.04
4  Robert Griffin III WAS 309 3.01
5  Alex D. Smith SF 244 2.9
6  Andrew Luck IND 371 2.86
7  Kevin Kolb ARZ 217 2.84
8  Matt Cassel KC 260 2.82
9  Josh Freeman TB 274 2.79
10  Christian Ponder MIN 330 2.78
11  Aaron Rodgers GB 373 2.76
12  Tony Romo DAL 335 2.76
13  Jay Cutler CHI 278 2.74
14  Matt Ryan ATL 331 2.73
15  Ben Roethlisberger PIT 316 2.73
16  Brandon Weeden CLV 356 2.72
17  Philip Rivers SD 285 2.72
18  Matthew Stafford DET 369 2.71
19  Sam Bradford SL 278 2.71
20  Mark Sanchez NYJ 291 2.68
21  Drew Brees NO 357 2.67
22  Matt Schaub HST 260 2.67
23  John Skelton ARZ 187 2.64
24  Joe Flacco BLT 299 2.62
25  Eli Manning NYG 331 2.59
26  Andy Dalton CIN 315 2.59
27  Blaine Gabbert JAX 271 2.58
28  Carson Palmer OAK 347 2.57
29  Ryan Fitzpatrick BUF 281 2.57
30  Ryan Tannehill MIA 261 2.57
31  Peyton Manning DEN 304 2.51
32  Matt Hasselbeck TEN 240 2.5
33  Tom Brady NE 335 2.49
1/29/2013 1:10 PM
Regarding that 2nd play, I've said earlier that we shouldn't punish Brady for trying to push the ball into tight coverage when he doesn't have great receivers, and you've told me that the great QBs have to make those throws. He does that here, and you criticize him for doing so.  Which is it? 

Good QBs sometimes have to make questionable throws to win games, yes.This wasn't one of those cases. Brady didn't even scan the field to see who might be open. He just chucks it up and hopes his guy will get under it and the defender won't.

It was a rare type of pass for the normally risk-averse Brady, and it happened to work out. That doesn't mean it was necessary or that it was a good play. If the defender actually makes any play at all on the ball, it's an INT - but that didn't happen. The real good play here was made by the receiver, who doesn't have his man beat until the ball is in the air, meaning he played the ball exceptionally well and created that space after Brady had chucked it up and said a prayer his man would come down with it.
Brady led a team to record-setting offensive numbers.  Cassel took the same great squad and put up good numbers.  Are you having trouble seeing the difference?

There were more differences than just Brady and Cassell, although that was the major one (obviously).

In any case, we should expect Brady to perform better than Cassell simply because he has far more experience, both in the league and in that offense. In point of fact, the drop off should have not only been there but been MUCH GREATER than it actually was.

It was thought for a time that Cassell was simply that good. Kansas City banked on it. Well, Cassell obviously isn't as good as was thought when taken out of NE.

I'd wager the same thing would have happened to Brady if he'd have been sent to KC - he'd be an afterthought now and everyone would KNOW what I'm saying is true: It's the team and the system and not Brady.
Also if you put Brady on KC, I would guess he puts up similar numbers to what he did pre-Moss.

I highly doubt it. Cassell couldn't replicate his NE numbers when he was with KC, so its probable Brady couldn't either.  I would believe he would do better than Cassell did, but not by enough for you to sell me on Brady being "great" by comparison.
I'm starting to understand how you can discredit Brady...you're just seeing different stuff.  Maybe you're wearing funny glasses or something?

I'm seeing what actually happens. You're seeing something else because you're high on Brady worship kool-aid.
What team do you root for?

I don't like Brady JUST BECAUSE so many people worship him and have him so over rated. As a result, my favorite team is whoever is playing against New England. I cheer every New England loss because it means there is less fuel for people to use to over rate Brady.

Now you'll say I'm biased against Brady because of that, but you're putting the effect before the cause. I don't like the Patriots BECAUSE Brady is over rated. If so many people didn't claim he was "great", "elite" or whatever when he's obviously not, I wouldn't have a problem with him. (Though I would still cheer when NE loses because they cheated to win the SB and I can't cheer for a team that does that.)
To which I responded, we watch different games. 
You must be really high on the Brady-worship kool-aid. I counted more than ten times in the Baltimore playoff game when he had at least five second to throw. The announcers were declaring it out loud "Brady with ALL DAY to throw" more than once.
1/29/2013 1:12 PM
That chart mainly shows that Brady drops back, sets his feet, and fires the ball.

He KNOWS where he's going with it.  It has less to do with the o-line than it does with the decisiveness of the QB.

And he's much less likely to scramble around looking to run. 

Bonus points for identifying the characteristic the top 4 QBs on this list share....
1/29/2013 1:42 PM (edited)
Regarding that 2nd play, I've said earlier that we shouldn't punish Brady for trying to push the ball into tight coverage when he doesn't have great receivers, and you've told me that the great QBs have to make those throws. He does that here, and you criticize him for doing so.  Which is it? 

Good QBs sometimes have to make questionable throws to win games, yes.This wasn't one of those cases. Brady didn't even scan the field to see who might be open. He just chucks it up and hopes his guy will get under it and the defender won't. 

It was a rare type of pass for the normally risk-averse Brady, and it happened to work out. That doesn't mean it was necessary or that it was a good play. If the defender actually makes any play at all on the ball, it's an INT - but that didn't happen. The real good play here was made by the receiver, who doesn't have his man beat until the ball is in the air, meaning he played the ball exceptionally well and created that space after Brady had chucked it up and said a prayer his man would come down with it.
  • What actually happened was that the Pats split their running back wide and a linebacker covered him.  Brady was smart enough to recognize that he had single man coverage on him, saw the safety wouldn't be near the play, and took a shot at making a perfect pass for a TD.  He recognized that the odds of the LB turning around and making a great play and a pick on a ball that a DB could normally make was small, even if he didn't throw it as accurately as he needed to.  But he did, and was awarded with a TD.  I've seen Brady make GREAT down the field throws over and over again.
Brady led a team to record-setting offensive numbers.  Cassel took the same great squad and put up good numbers.  Are you having trouble seeing the difference?

There were more differences than just Brady and Cassell, although that was the major one (obviously).  
  • The only thing I found that was different was that Maroney got a lot less touches (injury maybe?) and Sammy Morris got a lot more carries.  And he did very well.  Other than that?....you'll have to tell me what was different.  Moss is another year old, which probably hurts some. There, I gave you one.

In any case, we should expect Brady to perform better than Cassell simply because he has far more experience, both in the league and in that offense. In point of fact, the drop off should have not only been there but been MUCH GREATER than it actually was. 
  • Cassel put up stats that resembles Brady's pre-Moss numbers.  Which were described as "just above average" by a few people here.  So Cassel was "just above average" with weapons you claim carried Brady to his incredible passing numbers.  Just above average as compared to record-setting.  You want a wider gap? 

It was thought for a time that Cassell was simply that good. Kansas City banked on it. Well, Cassell obviously isn't as good as was thought when taken out of NE.

I'd wager the same thing would have happened to Brady if he'd have been sent to KC - he'd be an afterthought now and everyone would KNOW what I'm saying is true: It's the team and the system and not Brady.
  • He wasn't an afterthought when he had similar offensive weapons (I'd argue KC's are better.  Dwayne Bowe and Jamaal Charles are better than anyone he had pre-2007) and an average o-line, at best.  So I don't see evidence on why he'd be an afterthought now.
Also if you put Brady on KC, I would guess he puts up similar numbers to what he did pre-Moss.

I highly doubt it. Cassell couldn't replicate his NE numbers when he was with KC, so its probable Brady couldn't either.  I would believe he would do better than Cassell did, but not by enough for you to sell me on Brady being "great" by comparison.
  • You're not comparing the right things here - Brady had record setting, elite numbers when Moss was there.  Cassel put up good numbers with Moss and Welker there.  If Cassel were on the pre-Moss teams, playing, I doubt he'd play very well.  
I'm starting to understand how you can discredit Brady...you're just seeing different stuff.  Maybe you're wearing funny glasses or something?

I'm seeing what actually happens. You're seeing something else because you're high on Brady worship kool-aid.  
  • What flavor is that? You know I prefer cherry.
What team do you root for?

I don't like Brady JUST BECAUSE so many people worship him and have him so over rated. As a result, my favorite team is whoever is playing against New England. I cheer every New England loss because it means there is less fuel for people to use to over rate Brady. 

Now you'll say I'm biased against Brady because of that, but you're putting the effect before the cause. I don't like the Patriots BECAUSE Brady is over rated. If so many people didn't claim he was "great", "elite" or whatever when he's obviously not, I wouldn't have a problem with him. (Though I would still cheer when NE loses because they cheated to win the SB and I can't cheer for a team that does that.)
  • Just...wow.  I was expecting Colts, Dolphins, etc.  Not "whatever team Brady plays."  Dude, the hate is unnecessary and exhausting.  He seems like he's a decent person.  Just let him be.
To which I responded, we watch different games. 
You must be really high on the Brady-worship kool-aid.  I counted more than ten times in the Baltimore playoff game when he had at least five second to throw. The announcers were declaring it out loud "Brady with ALL DAY to throw" more than once.
  • Yea, he had all day, and sucked in that game.  I mentioned that earlier.  I watch a lot of games he's played in, though.  I didn't realize you were basing this info on one game.
1/29/2013 1:59 PM
What actually happened was that the Pats split their running back wide and a linebacker covered him.

This does make it easier to take the chance on the receiver being able to beat the defender to a spot, but it doesn't always happen. It's a risky throw, and I'm guessing this is why Brady only makes it in this circumstance. Smart move. Still, it was enough to get the job done. That doesn't make it a great throw. There is a world of difference between getting the job done and great.
Just above average as compared to record-setting.  You want a wider gap?
I don't think Cassell was "just above average". I think he did extremely well for a QB with zero starts prior to that season, and the reason is because of the talented team and the system - the SAME reasons Brady was successful.

Cassell did in his first year about the same type of performance Brady did in his. That says it all.

Just as the team didn't go 16-0 every year, neither will records be set every year. I think everything came together for that team in that one year, and more of it had to do with other factors than to do with Brady.
He wasn't an afterthought when he had similar offensive weapons (I'd argue KC's are better.  Dwayne Bowe and Jamaal Charles are better than anyone pre-2007) and an average o-line, at best.  So I don't see evidence on why he'd be an afterthought now.
Sure. Right. When KC's offensive line gives him far less time to throw, the defense doesn't play nearly as well, special teams aren't that special, and the overall talent is far less, I'm sure Brady would have saved the day and taken KC to the Super Bowl on multiple occasions, no matter that he doesn't have the same system to play in. *rolls eyes*
You're not comparing the right things here - Brady had record setting, elite numbers when Moss was there.  Cassel put up good numbers with Moss and Welker there.  If Cassel were on the pre-Moss teams, playing, I doubt he'd play very well. 
If Cassel couldn't replicate what he produced in NE, Brady wouldn't have done so either. That's just logic.
Dude, the hate is unnecessary and exhausting.  He seems like he's a decent person.  Just let him be.
Couple of points:

First, Brady isn't a decent person. He's a pompous arrogant a** who thinks he's better than he is because of hype and over rating from people like you. He's a womanizing fool who managed to convince foolish women to be with him because he's famous and has money. I don't like people who are this way.

Second, I don't like players, teams, and people who cheat to get ahead. As I pointed out, NE unquestionably cheated to win the SB against the Rams. They should be stripped of that SB title as a result, and it's ridiculous that didn't happen. Lance Armstrong may have cheated, but at least he (finally) admitted it and they did the right thing in stripping his titles. The Patriots go on like nothing happened - players keep their rings, banners fly from the rafters, and it's all a lie.

I will forever hate the Patriots as a result, and nothing you can say will change that. The only way I'll ever be neutral toward that team is if the NFL vacates their first SB title, which isn't going to happen because the NFL wanted them to win the title that year.
 I didn't realize you were basing this info on one game.

I'm not. It's nearly every game. If you don't count it yourself like I do, all you have to do is listen to the announcers. They'll point it out eventually (usually after it has occurred MANY times already). In fact, when Brady does NOT get that much time to throw, it's astounding how often the Patriots lose or barely eek out a win - or maybe it's not so astounding.
1/29/2013 2:26 PM
What actually happened was that the Pats split their running back wide and a linebacker covered him.

This does make it easier to take the chance on the receiver being able to beat the defender to a spot, but it doesn't always happen. It's a risky throw, and I'm guessing this is why Brady only makes it in this circumstance. Smart move. Still, it was enough to get the job done. That doesn't make it a great throw. There is a world of difference between getting the job done and great.
  • It was a great throw.  It was perfect, actually.  If you want me to give some credit to Vereen as well, sure, he made a great play on the ball.  But that doesn't mean Brady didn't throw it perfectly.  You mentioned that Eli made a great throw to Manningham in last years Super Bowl, but failed to mention the great play Manningham made in securing the ball and getting both feet in.  Is it fair to rip me for giving Brady too much credit, when you don't always give credit to receivers on other teams when they make plays to help the QB?
Just above average as compared to record-setting.  You want a wider gap?
I don't think Cassell was "just above average". I think he did extremely well for a QB with zero starts prior to that season, and the reason is because of the talented team and the system - the SAME reasons Brady was successful.

Cassell did in his first year about the same type of performance Brady did in his. That says it all.
  • It doesn't.  As described earlier, Cassel had elite weapons that you claim carried Brady to record-setting passing numbers.  Brady had weapons that a very good quarterback who appeared in the Super Bowl half a decade earlier could not play well with.  

Just as the team didn't go 16-0 every year, neither will records be set every year. I think everything came together for that team in that one year, and more of it had to do with other factors than to do with Brady. 
  • That's fair actually.  I won't disagree.  Everything was clicking on all cylinders.  Some credit goes to the receivers, the o-line, the coaching, the defense.  Some goes to Brady.  A lot does, actually. 
He wasn't an afterthought when he had similar offensive weapons (I'd argue KC's are better.  Dwayne Bowe and Jamaal Charles are better than anyone pre-2007) and an average o-line, at best.  So I don't see evidence on why he'd be an afterthought now.
Sure. Right. When KC's offensive line gives him far less time to throw, the defense doesn't play nearly as well, special teams aren't that special, and the overall talent is far less, I'm sure Brady would have saved the day and taken KC to the Super Bowl on multiple occasions, no matter that he doesn't have the same system to play in. *rolls eyes*
  • Rolling your eyes again!  You might actually be a 16 year old girl.  Doesn't root for any team, just jealous that Tom Brady gets pretty women.
  • It's possible that his o-line hurts him in KC (as they hurt Cassel...maybe Cassel just couldn't handle having to make decisions so quickly).  But I think Bowe is a better weapon than Brown was, and having Charles will get more defenders in the box, which will allow for an easier passing game.  Brady's numbers might hurt some because the Chiefs may insist on running more often than the Pats do, which would be understandable.  The Chiefs DO need a better defense...so maybe they aren't a playoff team most years with Brady.  Maybe they are.  We don't know.
You're not comparing the right things here - Brady had record setting, elite numbers when Moss was there.  Cassel put up good numbers with Moss and Welker there.  If Cassel were on the pre-Moss teams, playing, I doubt he'd play very well. 
If Cassel couldn't replicate what he produced in NE, Brady wouldn't have done so either. That's just logic.
  • You're missing my point.  Maybe I actually have to repeat everything I say for you, which would help explain why you want to do the same for me. Cassel didn't replicate numbers he had with Moss and Welker.  I don't think Brady would replicate the numbers he had with them either. But I think he'd put numbers similar to what he had with worse weapons, and with a worse o-line, like he did pre 2007.  I think that sounds reasonable.
Dude, the hate is unnecessary and exhausting.  He seems like he's a decent person.  Just let him be.
Couple of points:

First, Brady isn't a decent person. He's a pompous arrogant a** who thinks he's better than he is because of hype and over rating from people like you. He's a womanizing fool who managed to convince foolish women to be with him because he's famous and has money. I don't like people who are this way.
  • Have you met him? You have no idea what kind of person he is.  It's unfair to you to pretend you know.  And if you're going to judge an athlete for being a womanizer, then just go ahead and hate the vast majority of athletes.  I promise, it's not just Brady.

Second, I don't like players, teams, and people who cheat to get ahead. As I pointed out, NE unquestionably cheated to win the SB against the Rams. They should be stripped of that SB title as a result, and it's ridiculous that didn't happen. Lance Armstrong may have cheated, but at least he (finally) admitted it and they did the right thing in stripping his titles. The Patriots go on like nothing happened - players keep their rings, banners fly from the rafters, and it's all a lie. 

I will forever hate the Patriots as a result, and nothing you can say will change that. The only way I'll ever be neutral toward that team is if the NFL vacates their first SB title, which isn't going to happen because the NFL wanted them to win the title that year.
  • I haven't touched on this because I don't know how much of an impact it had on their defensive effectiveness.  I can't argue with you.  
 I didn't realize you were basing this info on one game.

I'm not. It's nearly every game. If you don't count it yourself like I do, all you have to do is listen to the announcers. They'll point it out eventually (usually after it has occurred MANY times already). In fact, when Brady does NOT get that much time to throw, it's astounding how often the Patriots lose or barely eek out a win - or maybe it's not so astounding.
  • I've told you it's not every game, because I see it with my own 2 eyes, even before I drink my cherry Kool-aid.  And then I gave you data to prove it, which you are obviously ignoring.
1/29/2013 2:28 PM
burnsy, isn't there a brick wall nearby that you could bang your head against instead?
1/29/2013 2:39 PM
There is...hmm.....
1/29/2013 4:33 PM
 Is it fair to rip me for giving Brady too much credit, when you don't always give credit to receivers on other teams when they make plays to help the QB?

The receivers deserve a lot more credit than they get in most circumstances. I should have given Manningham credit on the Eli throw. However, the circumstances of each throw were different in many ways, so those throws can't really be accurately compared.
As described earlier, Cassel had elite weapons that you claim carried Brady to record-setting passing numbers.  Brady had weapons that a very good quarterback who appeared in the Super Bowl half a decade earlier could not play well with. 
Bledsoe didn't fit well in the system Belicheat established for Brady. That means nothing. QBs, even good ones, are not all alike and will play better in systems that fit their tendencies.

Cassell and Brady both played well in the system established around Brady, showing it wasn't Brady but the system.
Rolling your eyes again!  You might actually be a 16 year old girl.  Doesn't root for any team, just jealous that Tom Brady gets pretty women.
You made more ridiculous assumptions in these few sentences than I can imagine.

First, I do the *rolls eyes* to make sure you get sarcasm, as it may not otherwise be evident within my text, where I can't use other means to display said sarcasm. Your ASSUMPTION that this makes me "a 16 year old girl" is your attempt at an insult and means nothing.

Second, I don't have to root for any team unless I want to. It is my choice. Your ASSUMPTION that everyone roots for a team is wrong.

Third, you ASSUME I think the women Brady has been with are pretty when in fact I do not. The women he's been with that I know of are not attractive to me. You may feel differently, but that's you and not me. If they asked me I wouldn't give either of them the time of day.

Fourth, you ASSUME I'm jealous of Brady for being with women, which is based on the previous ASSUMPTION you think I find them attractive,and I already showed that was wrong and following logically, so is this assumption.
Have you met him? You have no idea what kind of person he is.  It's unfair to you to pretend you know.
I'm basing my judgement on everything I've seen and heard of him. I admit that isn't comprehensive knowledge, but almost no one would have that knowledge, so I'd say what I know is comparable to anyone else who isn't very close to him.
 And if you're going to judge an athlete for being a womanizer, then just go ahead and hate the vast majority of athletes.  I promise, it's not just Brady.
I know that, and I hate all womanizers equally. It's just fun to point out how you're wrong when you say he's a decent person.
I haven't touched on this because I don't know how much of an impact it had on their defensive effectiveness.
They watched the Rams walk through (at least) their first 15 plays for the Super Bowl and knew what was coming. If the defense knows exactly (or close to exactly) what is coming, how easy is it to stop it?

Ty Law's pick six on Warner? Doesn't happen without SpyGate. Law knew what play was coming.  Without Law's pick six, the Rams win. Follow the logic and you can see that ONE PLAY made all the difference.
1/29/2013 4:59 PM
cmon guys...its the system.  just like it is with the Packers.  Aaron Rodgers...not elite.

look at the facts.  Brett Favre was a drunk that even the Atlanta Falcons didnt want.  He comes to the Packers and is a hall of famer (pre dick pics).  Then he leaves and Aaron Rodgers steps in and doesnt miss a beat.  Then Rodgers sits a game and look what Matt Flynn does.  All he did was throw for 480 yards and 6 TDs with the same OL and same receivers that Rodgers had.  And Rodgers had never done that.  Then Flynn goes to Seattle and cant even beat out a rookie who needs help to pass the "must be this tall to ride" bar.  Therefore...Russell Wilson is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers... If Flynn can be successful in the Packer offense but not in the Seattle one, then the same is logically true for Rodgers.  And we know that Wilson was successful in the Seahawks scheme.  Imagine how amazing he would be in the GB system.
1/29/2013 5:25 PM (edited)
biz -

You said any decent QB could do what Brady does.  I bring up Bledsoe, and your response is essentially "except for him."  Cassel did have elite weapons on his team, it had very little to do with any "system" you say the Pats run.  If Brady got by on accurate somewhat-accurate short passes, he didn't with Moss on his team.  Bledsoe, on the other hand, had few good weapons and struggled.  Are you saying that Bledsoe is incapable of playing conservatively?

I apologize for the insult.  I didn't read through your whole response, but my response was tongue in cheek, I'm sorry you took it whatever way you took it.  Obviously I don't think you're a 16 year old girl.  But I do think *rolls eyes* is childish.

I know very little about Brady's personal life.  I'm surprised you think you do.  I haven't seen or heard anything that would make me think anything more or less of him.  He seems like a decent person, and I don't have any info that says otherwise.  That said, I generally don't get caught up in athlete's personal lives, so maybe you do know more than me.  There are a handful of athletes I root against because of decisions they've made off the field.  But Brady isn't one of them.

Law's pick was in the 2nd quarter.  (I could be wrong...maybe late 1st) I'm almost positive the Rams scored on their first drive, and definitely before the pick-6.  How do you know Law knew what was coming based on that walk-through?  If they knew what was coming, wouldn't they have stopped the Rams on their first drive?  That's my point with this - nobody really knows how much of an effect it had.  I won't argue one way or the other, but I guess my argument to you would be that you don't KNOW either.  And if he doesn't get the pick-6, it doesn't necessarily mean the Pats lose the game.  Maybe the Rams score, Brady is forced to throw more, and has a BIGGER game, helping his legacy.  It's possible.  And are you sure they had a walk-through of this game?  I thought that wasn't determined.

I've realized that one of the things that's interesting here is some of the things you claim you know.  Not what you believe, or think, but what you KNOW.  Which include:

Brady is overrated.
Any decent QB could do what he did. Except Drew Bledsoe.
Tom Brady is a bad human being.
The Pats won Super Bowls because of Spygate.
The Pats had the walk-through of the Rams before the game.
Ty Law knew where Warner was going, specifically because of said walk-through.
Tom Brady would be a bad QB in Kansas City.
Tom Brady is a product of a "system" (that hadn't worked until he started playing).
The Pats o-line has been excellent his entire career most of his career.

I'm sure there's more.  It's cool to believe something, and to back it up with evidence, but I don't think it's intelligent to claim you KNOW certain things to be true, especially in sports.

1/29/2013 5:35 PM
Posted by loudawg10 on 1/29/2013 4:59:00 PM (view original):
cmon guys...its the system.  just like it is with the Packers.  Aaron Rodgers...not elite.

look at the facts.  Brett Favre was a drunk that even the Atlanta Falcons didnt want.  He comes to the Packers and is a hall of famer (pre dick pics).  Then he leaves and Aaron Rodgers steps in and doesnt miss a beat.  Then Rodgers sits a game and look what Matt Flynn does.  All he did was throw for 480 yards and 6 TDs with the same OL and same receivers that Rodgers had.  And Rodgers had never done that.  Then Flynn goes to Seattle and cant even beat out a rookie who needs help to pass the "must be this tall to ride" bar.  Therefore...Russell Wilson is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers... If Flynn can be successful in the Packer offense but not in the Seattle one, then the same is logically true for Rodgers.  And we know that Wilson was successful in the Seahawks scheme.  Imagine how amazing he would be in the GB system.
Yes, Rodgers is successful because of the system.  When he makes great passes down the field, it's nice, but any great QB should be able to make those.  He's surrounded by great weapons, a fantastic offensive line.  Any QB could step in there and play well.  Did you see Rodgers against the Giants in the playoffs?  Giants hit him a few times and he wasn't as good.  Put Rodgers on the Chiefs, and he's a nobody.
1/30/2013 9:19 AM
burnsy, don't apologize to this nitwit.  

I mean he writes this...
Couple of points:

First, Brady isn't a decent person. He's a pompous arrogant a** who thinks he's better than he is because of hype and over rating from people like you. He's a womanizing fool who managed to convince foolish women to be with him because he's famous and has money. I don't like people who are this way.

Second, I don't like players, teams, and people who cheat to get ahead. As I pointed out, NE unquestionably cheated to win the SB against the Rams. They should be stripped of that SB title as a result, and it's ridiculous that didn't happen. Lance Armstrong may have cheated, but at least he (finally) admitted it and they did the right thing in stripping his titles. The Patriots go on like nothing happened - players keep their rings, banners fly from the rafters, and it's all a lie. 

I will forever hate the Patriots as a result, and nothing you can say will change that. The only way I'll ever be neutral toward that team is if the NFL vacates their first SB title, which isn't going to happen because the NFL wanted them to win the title that year.
Which just shows his stupidity.

Please stop giving this moron the time of day.
of 85
All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Patriots 9.5 points favorites over Ravens

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.