All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Time to overhaul recruiting
1/9/2013 12:14 AM
Posted by kelby_03 on 1/8/2013 6:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jdno on 1/8/2013 3:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by girt25 on 1/7/2013 6:02:00 PM (view original):
jdno, I agree that (on average), elite schools have more openings now. But honestly, I didn't really see non-elite schools signing elite recruits before the change, so I don't think it's been truly impactful in that regard.

I can tell you that as the coach at UNC, I think it's harder to be a stud team now than it was before. Just my opinion.

milk, I think a minimum for stud recruits makes sense, I talked about that a long time ago. The trick would be coming up with the right number. If you make it too onerous, those teams would be unable to defend themselves. Part of me wonders that if they did ever insert a minimum, they shouldn't publicize the exact figure. That way, you wouldn't have schools just doing simple arithmetic and saying, "Yep, I can put all my money here and he can't defend because he has three good recruits considering him". Or at least it would be harder.

(The more I think about this, the more I'm torn ... I see pros and cons. Generally I'm against artificial barriers in the game.)
On the whole, it is harder to maintain the elite 11 or 12-man depth charts since the EE change vs. before it, I agree with you there girt. 

However, for a regionally dominant elite team, they pick up even more of an advantage than before imo.  If there is not another elite team close by, then every 5-star coming down the pipe gets funneled to them, moreso than before the EE change, because of the higher roster turnover.

Guess we're splitting hairs at this point, but it's a nuance I've certainly observed regarding the elite teams.

I coach a couple A+ prestige schools and I can tell you that its not easier to maintain a dominant team. Having players continue to leave early makes it harder to ever have a veteran team. Veteran teams generally have more success. If you have a problem with high prestige schools getting all the 5 star talent then challenge them once in a while. They can't win every battle if they have competition for recruits.

Absolutely agree.
1/9/2013 2:44 PM
I'm curious who the team is in the original post that has 11 5-star guys on their roster?! Wow! Seriously, who was that? Don't think that's for real.

Anyway, I found this a curious read because I'm in the acc in Iba. I have been to the finals twice, final four once more and elite eight multiple times in the last 8 seasons. I cannot win it all because I have lost 11 early entries in 4 seasons, 3 sophomores. I have had 1 senior in 3 seasons, and he was the lowest rated player on my team.
Being able to recruit the best in this game is a blessing and a curse...
Just like in real life, the best to to a handful of schools, and just like in real life, the best go pro early.
Just like in real life, those who recruit the best have more recruiting abilities. Just like in real life, teams that play together longer tend to have a slight advantage come tourney time to the young guys. They really need to tweak this because whoever loses the least amount of ee's wins e tourney, that's a lot of luck. I have 6 freshmen this year, so no way I'll win it soon. By their junior season, it'll be about who sticks around. If I get lucky, I'll win it all. If another great team does, he will.

One major issue I agree with here is that they need to fire high prestige schools that under perform much quicker. The problem is a few of these coaches will quit and they'll lose customers. I think it needs to happen.

One thing I disagree with is baseline prestige is too big of a component. Georgia tech isn't a top baseline as far as I know (wasn't great when ingot there), but I regularly out recruit duke, Unc, and others because I have built up the prestige.

1/9/2013 5:06 PM
I've been out of the game for a long time but the last I knew GT was easily one of the top baseline schools in the eastern US.  Probably only a handful of schools east of the Mississippi better than them.  Granted, you still have to win (and doing well in the ACC is always difficult) but your starting point is much closer to an A+ than the rest of us.
1/9/2013 5:28 PM
stewdog, your paragraph re: luck is 100% on the mark. It stinks that who wins the NT essentially boils down to luck -- which teams are fortunate enough to keep a bunch of upperclassmen, and which are unlucky enough to lose them. Often the difference between having a championship contending squad and a rebuild, and it's based on luck. Not OK.
1/10/2013 10:28 AM
Lizak- Ga Tech is A-... UNC, Duke, UConn, Cuse, Mich St, MD, IL, KY, Wake, NC St, BC, Georgetown, Louisville, Cinci, IN, and FL all have better or the same eastish of the Miss. 
1/10/2013 10:37 AM
girt-
This is one of this biggest changes I've wanted them to make for some time now. Early entry logic. 
The reason they haven't done tons with it is because it doesn't effect a high percentage of users... only the top D1 teams. 

I want them to weight lottery picks considerably more. You still have the chance they don't go, but if they're a lottery pick, they should be 90% that they go. 
If they are projected 10-20, there should be around a 70% chance they go. 
If they are last part of the first round, 50% chance. 
If they are 2nd rounders, 33%??? 

I had 1 year where I kept 2 potential lottery picks. I won the NC. 
Another year, I lost 2 second rounders (along with a lottery pick) and that cost me all chances of going far in the tourney. I was not surprised or even disappointed that I lost the stud. That's the price you pay for recruiting 5-stars. It was the 2- 2nd rounders that would have started on my team and played their  way into the 1st round the next year that stung. I've been an Elite 8 or better team pretty regularly going on 8 seasons... no championship because of that reason alone (that and the foul on the floor with :04 up by 1 that sent the AZ to the free throw line where he hit 2 & I couldn't get a shot off from inside half court in :04 seconds though i had full timeouts left. But I'm not bitter about that, promise). Fix the randomness with early entries and it'd be a big deal. 
1/10/2013 11:44 AM
Again -- well stated and right on the mark.
1/10/2013 11:56 AM
Posted by stewdog on 1/9/2013 2:44:00 PM (view original):
I'm curious who the team is in the original post that has 11 5-star guys on their roster?! Wow! Seriously, who was that? Don't think that's for real.

Anyway, I found this a curious read because I'm in the acc in Iba. I have been to the finals twice, final four once more and elite eight multiple times in the last 8 seasons. I cannot win it all because I have lost 11 early entries in 4 seasons, 3 sophomores. I have had 1 senior in 3 seasons, and he was the lowest rated player on my team.
Being able to recruit the best in this game is a blessing and a curse...
Just like in real life, the best to to a handful of schools, and just like in real life, the best go pro early.
Just like in real life, those who recruit the best have more recruiting abilities. Just like in real life, teams that play together longer tend to have a slight advantage come tourney time to the young guys. They really need to tweak this because whoever loses the least amount of ee's wins e tourney, that's a lot of luck. I have 6 freshmen this year, so no way I'll win it soon. By their junior season, it'll be about who sticks around. If I get lucky, I'll win it all. If another great team does, he will.

One major issue I agree with here is that they need to fire high prestige schools that under perform much quicker. The problem is a few of these coaches will quit and they'll lose customers. I think it needs to happen.

One thing I disagree with is baseline prestige is too big of a component. Georgia tech isn't a top baseline as far as I know (wasn't great when ingot there), but I regularly out recruit duke, Unc, and others because I have built up the prestige.

Not taking issue with any of your points, but why wouldn't 11 5-stars on a single roster be for real?  I actually think that probably isn't wholly uncommon (maybe not 11, but 9 or 10) in many worlds. 
1/10/2013 2:56 PM
Posted by jslotman on 1/10/2013 11:56:00 AM (view original):
Posted by stewdog on 1/9/2013 2:44:00 PM (view original):
I'm curious who the team is in the original post that has 11 5-star guys on their roster?! Wow! Seriously, who was that? Don't think that's for real.

Anyway, I found this a curious read because I'm in the acc in Iba. I have been to the finals twice, final four once more and elite eight multiple times in the last 8 seasons. I cannot win it all because I have lost 11 early entries in 4 seasons, 3 sophomores. I have had 1 senior in 3 seasons, and he was the lowest rated player on my team.
Being able to recruit the best in this game is a blessing and a curse...
Just like in real life, the best to to a handful of schools, and just like in real life, the best go pro early.
Just like in real life, those who recruit the best have more recruiting abilities. Just like in real life, teams that play together longer tend to have a slight advantage come tourney time to the young guys. They really need to tweak this because whoever loses the least amount of ee's wins e tourney, that's a lot of luck. I have 6 freshmen this year, so no way I'll win it soon. By their junior season, it'll be about who sticks around. If I get lucky, I'll win it all. If another great team does, he will.

One major issue I agree with here is that they need to fire high prestige schools that under perform much quicker. The problem is a few of these coaches will quit and they'll lose customers. I think it needs to happen.

One thing I disagree with is baseline prestige is too big of a component. Georgia tech isn't a top baseline as far as I know (wasn't great when ingot there), but I regularly out recruit duke, Unc, and others because I have built up the prestige.

Not taking issue with any of your points, but why wouldn't 11 5-stars on a single roster be for real?  I actually think that probably isn't wholly uncommon (maybe not 11, but 9 or 10) in many worlds. 
it's not realistic in the real world. even places like UNC, Duke and Kentucky don't have that many. 
1/10/2013 3:04 PM
The main problem is that they overvalued the baseline for about half the schools in the ACC and undervalued in other conferences. This always gave the ACC an advantage especially when conference prestige bumps come into play, but when they started generating the super recruits the thing just went haywire. Forcing o baseline is, and always has been a poor idea. A prestige floor would serve the game better and allow for new dynasties instead of enforcing the world of basketball as WIS saw it in 2005.
1/10/2013 9:32 PM
Posted by stewdog on 1/10/2013 10:28:00 AM (view original):
Lizak- Ga Tech is A-... UNC, Duke, UConn, Cuse, Mich St, MD, IL, KY, Wake, NC St, BC, Georgetown, Louisville, Cinci, IN, and FL all have better or the same eastish of the Miss. 
Notice I said "better", not the same.  Having only 8 schools in your half of the country (probably only 4 within 500 miles) with a better baseline is quite an advantage.
1/14/2013 2:45 PM
Posted by jslotman on 1/10/2013 11:56:00 AM (view original):
Posted by stewdog on 1/9/2013 2:44:00 PM (view original):
I'm curious who the team is in the original post that has 11 5-star guys on their roster?! Wow! Seriously, who was that? Don't think that's for real.

Anyway, I found this a curious read because I'm in the acc in Iba. I have been to the finals twice, final four once more and elite eight multiple times in the last 8 seasons. I cannot win it all because I have lost 11 early entries in 4 seasons, 3 sophomores. I have had 1 senior in 3 seasons, and he was the lowest rated player on my team.
Being able to recruit the best in this game is a blessing and a curse...
Just like in real life, the best to to a handful of schools, and just like in real life, the best go pro early.
Just like in real life, those who recruit the best have more recruiting abilities. Just like in real life, teams that play together longer tend to have a slight advantage come tourney time to the young guys. They really need to tweak this because whoever loses the least amount of ee's wins e tourney, that's a lot of luck. I have 6 freshmen this year, so no way I'll win it soon. By their junior season, it'll be about who sticks around. If I get lucky, I'll win it all. If another great team does, he will.

One major issue I agree with here is that they need to fire high prestige schools that under perform much quicker. The problem is a few of these coaches will quit and they'll lose customers. I think it needs to happen.

One thing I disagree with is baseline prestige is too big of a component. Georgia tech isn't a top baseline as far as I know (wasn't great when ingot there), but I regularly out recruit duke, Unc, and others because I have built up the prestige.

Not taking issue with any of your points, but why wouldn't 11 5-stars on a single roster be for real?  I actually think that probably isn't wholly uncommon (maybe not 11, but 9 or 10) in many worlds. 
I ask because I am in this conference... and for the last few years, I've had probably the best team in the conference (arguably, but who cares for this point), and I have about 6-8 5 stars on the team each year on average. I have NOT seen ANYone with 11! I might have had 8 in my best season, and I think BC and Miami and a few others in that league who are real good would be about 8ish at the MOST. I just don't like strawman arguments is why I bring it up! 


1/14/2013 2:46 PM
Posted by Lizak on 1/10/2013 9:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by stewdog on 1/10/2013 10:28:00 AM (view original):
Lizak- Ga Tech is A-... UNC, Duke, UConn, Cuse, Mich St, MD, IL, KY, Wake, NC St, BC, Georgetown, Louisville, Cinci, IN, and FL all have better or the same eastish of the Miss. 
Notice I said "better", not the same.  Having only 8 schools in your half of the country (probably only 4 within 500 miles) with a better baseline is quite an advantage.
I'd obviously agree, but it was earned. And its hard to keep up as there are not THAT many 5-star types to go around in each section of the country. 
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