All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > High-Capacity Assault Weapons
1/16/2013 4:25 PM
So the ATF is an ineffective, powerless government agency?

Yes, we should give the government more power regarding firearms.   
1/16/2013 4:34 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2013 4:25:00 PM (view original):
So the ATF is an ineffective, powerless government agency?

Yes, we should give the government more power regarding firearms.   
Or change the gun laws so that people doing things like reselling guns to foreign drug cartels can be arrested.
1/16/2013 5:04 PM
People selling guns to criminals will not stop due to gun laws.

You see, they're already crossing lines.  They don't care.

What part of this is too complicated?
1/16/2013 5:28 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2013 5:04:00 PM (view original):
People selling guns to criminals will not stop due to gun laws.

You see, they're already crossing lines.  They don't care.

What part of this is too complicated?
In Arizona, it's not illegal to resell guns. That's why the ATF didn't stop or arrest any of the gun runners. Change the law to make reselling guns without a permit illegal and the ATF could have arrested the gun runners.
1/16/2013 5:36 PM
Did they know these guns were being resold to drug cartels?

And they took no action?    Or, if nothing else, called someone who could take action?
1/16/2013 5:53 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2013 5:36:00 PM (view original):
Did they know these guns were being resold to drug cartels?

And they took no action?    Or, if nothing else, called someone who could take action?
It's not like the guys buying the guns had shirts on that said "I'm with the drug cartels."

When you buy a gun in Arizona, you're required to sign an affidavit promising that you don't intend to resell the gun. But it's perfectly legal for you to change your mind literally the second you walk out of the store and then resell the gun legally. You can't be arrested for selling the gun, even if the person you sold it to turns out to be a gun runner.

The ATF can arrest the gun runner IF they catch that person smuggling the guns into Mexico. But US citizens are rarely stopped, searched, or even slowed down going into Mexico. So chances of that are small, especially when there is no trail of illegal activity (the guns were bought legally) to use to obtain a warrant.
1/16/2013 6:47 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 1/16/2013 4:24:00 PM (view original):
Another reason to hate Obamacare.

Doctor's are now able to question everyone about the number of guns in thier home.
Who cares?  How is this a bad thing?  They're not allowed to follow that person home and take their guns.  They simply report to the authorities "Hey, this guy is a stark raving lunatic AND he owns a bunch of guns."  Or, "This woman has come in with bruises 3 times and a broken bone once, and her husband owns a gun."  Preparedness = better response when there is inevitably an issue.  I'm having a hard time seeing the downside to this, unless it's another "this is a slippery slope" argument.  If so, the downside is a long way down that slope.  If it's a right to privacy argument, you should give up your right to privacy when you're a stark raving lunatic who beats the sh*t out of his wife.
1/16/2013 7:18 PM
So report that he is a stark raving lunatic or that he is beating his wife. I can support that.

What does gun ownership have to do with it.

The only reason the government needs to know if you have a gun is for them to take it away.
1/16/2013 7:19 PM
1/16/2013 7:31 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 1/16/2013 7:18:00 PM (view original):
So report that he is a stark raving lunatic or that he is beating his wife. I can support that.

What does gun ownership have to do with it.

The only reason the government needs to know if you have a gun is for them to take it away.
It's not like you're under oath when you're at the doctor's office. If you don't want to tell him about your guns, don't.
1/16/2013 8:00 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 1/16/2013 7:18:00 PM (view original):
So report that he is a stark raving lunatic or that he is beating his wife. I can support that.

What does gun ownership have to do with it.

The only reason the government needs to know if you have a gun is for them to take it away.
I thought you were against lunatics having the same rights as others?
1/17/2013 2:27 AM
I am.

You can have Doctors turn them in.

The idea that Doctors are going to collect gun data is the crazy part.

Being dangerous to yourself or others is a problem. Beating your wife is a problem.

Owning a firearm isnt.
1/17/2013 2:28 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 1/16/2013 7:31:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 1/16/2013 7:18:00 PM (view original):
So report that he is a stark raving lunatic or that he is beating his wife. I can support that.

What does gun ownership have to do with it.

The only reason the government needs to know if you have a gun is for them to take it away.
It's not like you're under oath when you're at the doctor's office. If you don't want to tell him about your guns, don't.
So under your system honest law abiding citizens should lie to their doctors about their firearms??
1/17/2013 8:07 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 1/16/2013 5:53:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2013 5:36:00 PM (view original):
Did they know these guns were being resold to drug cartels?

And they took no action?    Or, if nothing else, called someone who could take action?
It's not like the guys buying the guns had shirts on that said "I'm with the drug cartels."

When you buy a gun in Arizona, you're required to sign an affidavit promising that you don't intend to resell the gun. But it's perfectly legal for you to change your mind literally the second you walk out of the store and then resell the gun legally. You can't be arrested for selling the gun, even if the person you sold it to turns out to be a gun runner.

The ATF can arrest the gun runner IF they catch that person smuggling the guns into Mexico. But US citizens are rarely stopped, searched, or even slowed down going into Mexico. So chances of that are small, especially when there is no trail of illegal activity (the guns were bought legally) to use to obtain a warrant.
Seems our government knew who the guns were being transferred to.    Do you not recall the congressional hearings?
1/17/2013 9:39 AM
Yet the transfers weren't illegal. You can't arrest someone for doing something legal.
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