All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Wins and Losses
12/3/2012 6:02 PM
How important are wins and losses for evaluating pitchers?






Votes: 27
(Last vote received: 12/11/2012 5:44 AM)
12/3/2012 6:05 PM
Regardless of the language used, consider the choices to be evenly spaced on the ladder.
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12/4/2012 10:09 AM
So what was your answer, bad_luck? Completely worthless? Because real baseball is not a statistical simulation. While wins and losses are obviously determined as a team, the starting pitcher has the most impact in any given game. It's worth having some consideration of wins and losses when evaluating a pitcher.

I don't think Morris is quite a HOFer, but it's not utterly ridiculous. He's a borderline candidate. There sure aren't a lot of starting pitchers from the 80's that get HOF consideration. Blyleven is probably the only one who will get in from that era (unless you count Clemens as part of that group), and he was borderline too. It's the relievers of the era that got in: Sutter, Gossage, Eckersley.
12/4/2012 10:17 AM
Off topic, it's interesting how many good pitchers in the 80's couldn't put a HOF-length career together. Gooden, Valenzuela, Hershiser, Mike Scott, Saberhagen, Guidry, Steib, Steve Rogers, Welch, Viola.

On the other hand, there are many pitchers who started a decade earlier in the HOF: Seaver, Ryan, Carlton, Sutton, Hunter, Jenkins, Palmer, Neikro & Perry.

I think thinks got more strict in this era though. Hershiser was probably better than Catfish Hunter, and he topped out at a mere 11% of the vote.
12/4/2012 10:18 AM
Bad_luck believes that advanced stats are everything.  What actually happens between the lines on the field is less important that the numbers that can be analyzed in a spreadsheet after the fact.
12/4/2012 10:44 AM
To those who picked "worthless" - your team has a big game, and your options are 2 pitchers.  You have A) 14-14, 3.20 ERA or B) 20-8, 3.35 ERA.  Who are you picking?
12/4/2012 10:50 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 12/4/2012 10:18:00 AM (view original):
Bad_luck believes that advanced stats are everything.  What actually happens between the lines on the field is less important that the numbers that can be analyzed in a spreadsheet after the fact.
The problem with your very intelligent theory is that pitcher win/loss records don't tell you anything about what actually happened on the field.
12/4/2012 10:51 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/4/2012 10:50:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/4/2012 10:18:00 AM (view original):
Bad_luck believes that advanced stats are everything.  What actually happens between the lines on the field is less important that the numbers that can be analyzed in a spreadsheet after the fact.
The problem with your very intelligent theory is that pitcher win/loss records don't tell you anything about what actually happened on the field.

Are you saying that wins and losses don't happen on the field?

Then where do they occur?

12/4/2012 10:53 AM
Well, it might indicate who won or lost.    Not that that sort of thing is important but they do tally a point in a column for that.
12/4/2012 10:55 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 12/4/2012 10:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/4/2012 10:50:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/4/2012 10:18:00 AM (view original):
Bad_luck believes that advanced stats are everything.  What actually happens between the lines on the field is less important that the numbers that can be analyzed in a spreadsheet after the fact.
The problem with your very intelligent theory is that pitcher win/loss records don't tell you anything about what actually happened on the field.

Are you saying that wins and losses don't happen on the field?

Then where do they occur?

They are worthless for evaluating the pitcher's performance.
12/4/2012 10:59 AM
But a win/loss DOES actually tell you what happened on the field?    Even just a little bit?
12/4/2012 11:02 AM
Like maybe he lobbed that final batting practice-type pitch that a fielder miraculously caught after the batter crushed it when the game ended?
12/4/2012 11:12 AM
This is amazing. I really can't believe how lucky I am to have stumbled upon the last dark corner of the internet where people still argue that a pitcher's win/loss record isn't completely worthless. What a treat. After this are you guys going to argue that the earth is flat? Or make the case for a geocentric solar system?
12/4/2012 11:12 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/4/2012 10:55:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/4/2012 10:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/4/2012 10:50:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/4/2012 10:18:00 AM (view original):
Bad_luck believes that advanced stats are everything.  What actually happens between the lines on the field is less important that the numbers that can be analyzed in a spreadsheet after the fact.
The problem with your very intelligent theory is that pitcher win/loss records don't tell you anything about what actually happened on the field.

Are you saying that wins and losses don't happen on the field?

Then where do they occur?

They are worthless for evaluating the pitcher's performance.
Except for that stupid "win or lose the game" thingee.
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