All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Farewell, Old Friends
11/16/2012 2:16 PM
it's no big deal... Obama has a jobs plan and it's called tax the rich. besides it's only 18,000 jobs.
11/16/2012 2:21 PM
Posted by toddcommish on 11/16/2012 2:15:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/16/2012 2:07:00 PM (view original):
Yes, it is highly unlikely.   Hostess wasn't able to make a worthwhile profit under their current conditions, in part due to lack of demand, so there's no reason to think the buyer of the "Twinkie factory" will need 18k workers to resume making Twinkies.
The biggest problem with this is that those 18K go on the government dole, and are immediately de-incentivized to go out and actually WORK.  Which makes them even more likely to vote Democratic in future elections to keep the gravy train going.

If they really really want to work, they should look for jobs at Keebler, Little Debby, and various other sugar purveyors that are still in business.
Because we all know, the only thing separating the unemployed from employment is a will to work. 
11/16/2012 2:24 PM
I asked you to pick a percentage of people on the gov't dole who are happy to be there.   You have yet to respond.    How many of those 18k do you think will be fine in collecting unemployment and food stamps as long as they can get them?
11/16/2012 2:43 PM
BRING BACK IKE, RICHIE CUNNINGHAM+ DUCKS *****!
11/16/2012 6:45 PM
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/11/16/1203151/why-unions-dont-shoulder-the-blame-for-hostesss-downfall/

increase executives pay, then ask the rank and file to take a pay cut-this is the new world order
11/16/2012 6:55 PM
Let's see....

Company A's entire product line is falling out favor with consumers.
Sales and revenues plummet (we can't say this for sure, because Hostess is a private company that does not publicly report it's numbers, but this is a safe assumption).
Company A's does nothing to expand its product line to include things that consumers actually want to buy.
Company A's profits fall.
Company A's executives demand massive (the only appropriate adjective) wage and benefits concessions from their line employees.
When the employees balk, the company decides to liquidate.
AND BLAMES THE UNIONS FOR IT ALL.

There are so many layers of this yet to be explored, many of which will likely never see the light of day because of the privately-held status of the company.

Frankly, if any manager reporting to me came to me with a plan that said the only way to keep the company solvent was to demand that workers take massive cuts in pay, I would fire that manager immediately.  Heck, if I were the CEO, I should have been fired ages ago for letting things get to this point.

More importantly - where was the board during all of this?  Management should have been canned months if not years ago for letting the company get on this trajectory.  If there were any justice here, the union would be able to sue ownership, management, and the board for the full lifetime value of the lost wages and benefits that were caused by reckless managerial incompetence.  Unfortunately, due to the travesty that is "limitation of liability" in our corporate legal system, this cannot happen.

Can't wait to read, months from now, buried on page 27D, how much money the PE investors make off of this liquidation. 

This is story of management failure.

But none of that matters, it's all the greedy union's fault.  And the government's fault for providing such luxurious safety net benefits that people would rather be on the dole than work.  Keep telling yourself that.
11/16/2012 7:16 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/16/2012 2:24:00 PM (view original):
I asked you to pick a percentage of people on the gov't dole who are happy to be there.   You have yet to respond.    How many of those 18k do you think will be fine in collecting unemployment and food stamps as long as they can get them?
Easy: zero.

Because if that were their preference, they could have opted to do that already.

The fact that they opted to remain employed right up until the point the company liquidated is absolute proof of this.
11/17/2012 9:26 AM
Posted by da6nz6ig6 on 11/16/2012 1:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/16/2012 1:44:00 PM (view original):
That's a beer and a soda.  That's still less calories than a frapachino.  Ten percent of your daily calories is only 250 calories.

But back to the Twinkee saga, some company will buy the "Twinkee Factory" and continue to make them.     Most of those 18,000 jobs will reappear and mostly likely will be at a lower wage.   The inefficient company will be replaced by an efficient company.   Isn't that how it is suppose to work?
This is highly unlikely.  They are selling the "formulas" to their popular products to the highest bidders.  Other companies will produce those products in their own factories with their own workers.  The majority of those 18,000 workers, unfortunately, are out of luck.
Ok, so lets say 8k workers are needed by other/new companies to replace the Twinkee market share.  That leaves 10k people out of work.

The other/new companies increase their product, grow their company and create new jobs in other markets.

Isn't this how it is suppose to work?  

Inefficient companies shouldn't continue to be in business.
11/17/2012 10:16 AM (edited)
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/17/2012 9:26:00 AM (view original):
Posted by da6nz6ig6 on 11/16/2012 1:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/16/2012 1:44:00 PM (view original):
That's a beer and a soda.  That's still less calories than a frapachino.  Ten percent of your daily calories is only 250 calories.

But back to the Twinkee saga, some company will buy the "Twinkee Factory" and continue to make them.     Most of those 18,000 jobs will reappear and mostly likely will be at a lower wage.   The inefficient company will be replaced by an efficient company.   Isn't that how it is suppose to work?
This is highly unlikely.  They are selling the "formulas" to their popular products to the highest bidders.  Other companies will produce those products in their own factories with their own workers.  The majority of those 18,000 workers, unfortunately, are out of luck.
Ok, so lets say 8k workers are needed by other/new companies to replace the Twinkee market share.  That leaves 10k people out of work.

The other/new companies increase their product, grow their company and create new jobs in other markets.

Isn't this how it is suppose to work?  

Inefficient companies shouldn't continue to be in business.
sure inefficient companies shouldn't be in business....


but other companies aren't hiring.... and new companies are opening at an extraordinarily slow pace.


vast majority of those hostess people are going on unemployment. bottom line. also to add to the situation, most competitors aren't going to pay to relocate most of these employees, and most of them probably can't move on their own even for a new job with their homes under water.


Didn't Michael Moore document this kinda stuff in Flint, Michigan?
11/17/2012 10:17 AM
Yeah, had nothing at all to do with a longterm trend of sagging sales figures due to a more health conscious consumer base at all.  The janitor with the confederate flag adorned pickup in the trailer park is far more of an economic mind...
11/17/2012 11:43 AM
Posted by moy23 on 11/17/2012 10:16:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/17/2012 9:26:00 AM (view original):
Posted by da6nz6ig6 on 11/16/2012 1:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/16/2012 1:44:00 PM (view original):
That's a beer and a soda.  That's still less calories than a frapachino.  Ten percent of your daily calories is only 250 calories.

But back to the Twinkee saga, some company will buy the "Twinkee Factory" and continue to make them.     Most of those 18,000 jobs will reappear and mostly likely will be at a lower wage.   The inefficient company will be replaced by an efficient company.   Isn't that how it is suppose to work?
This is highly unlikely.  They are selling the "formulas" to their popular products to the highest bidders.  Other companies will produce those products in their own factories with their own workers.  The majority of those 18,000 workers, unfortunately, are out of luck.
Ok, so lets say 8k workers are needed by other/new companies to replace the Twinkee market share.  That leaves 10k people out of work.

The other/new companies increase their product, grow their company and create new jobs in other markets.

Isn't this how it is suppose to work?  

Inefficient companies shouldn't continue to be in business.
sure inefficient companies shouldn't be in business....


but other companies aren't hiring.... and new companies are opening at an extraordinarily slow pace.


vast majority of those hostess people are going on unemployment. bottom line. also to add to the situation, most competitors aren't going to pay to relocate most of these employees, and most of them probably can't move on their own even for a new job with their homes under water.


Didn't Michael Moore document this kinda stuff in Flint, Michigan?
other companies will hire when  the Hostess is no longer producing.....they were selling something like half a billion twinkees and a quarter billion loaves of wonder bread a year.

It's not like people aren't going to buy other products.
11/17/2012 12:36 PM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/17/2012 11:43:00 AM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 11/17/2012 10:16:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/17/2012 9:26:00 AM (view original):
Posted by da6nz6ig6 on 11/16/2012 1:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/16/2012 1:44:00 PM (view original):
That's a beer and a soda.  That's still less calories than a frapachino.  Ten percent of your daily calories is only 250 calories.

But back to the Twinkee saga, some company will buy the "Twinkee Factory" and continue to make them.     Most of those 18,000 jobs will reappear and mostly likely will be at a lower wage.   The inefficient company will be replaced by an efficient company.   Isn't that how it is suppose to work?
This is highly unlikely.  They are selling the "formulas" to their popular products to the highest bidders.  Other companies will produce those products in their own factories with their own workers.  The majority of those 18,000 workers, unfortunately, are out of luck.
Ok, so lets say 8k workers are needed by other/new companies to replace the Twinkee market share.  That leaves 10k people out of work.

The other/new companies increase their product, grow their company and create new jobs in other markets.

Isn't this how it is suppose to work?  

Inefficient companies shouldn't continue to be in business.
sure inefficient companies shouldn't be in business....


but other companies aren't hiring.... and new companies are opening at an extraordinarily slow pace.


vast majority of those hostess people are going on unemployment. bottom line. also to add to the situation, most competitors aren't going to pay to relocate most of these employees, and most of them probably can't move on their own even for a new job with their homes under water.


Didn't Michael Moore document this kinda stuff in Flint, Michigan?
other companies will hire when  the Hostess is no longer producing.....they were selling something like half a billion twinkees and a quarter billion loaves of wonder bread a year.

It's not like people aren't going to buy other products.
probably with non-union factories down south ;)
11/17/2012 12:59 PM (edited)
Posted by evil_twin on 11/17/2012 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Yeah, had nothing at all to do with a longterm trend of sagging sales figures due to a more health conscious consumer base at all.  The janitor with the confederate flag adorned pickup in the trailer park is far more of an economic mind...
http://hostessbrands.info/

Good read.... right from hostess.


this has got to sting.... from the faq

Will I be eligible for unemployment benefits?
It depends on what state you are in and if you went on strike. For example, in some states, striking employees are not entitled to unemployment benefits. You are encouraged to contact the unemployment office for your state. The following website can help you locate your nearest state employment office: www.servicelocator.org.
11/17/2012 1:29 PM
So someone else is going to make twinkies and they will filter out the less profitable products.

And the company that buys them will hire people to make the product, or people will buy more of the competitor products.

Isnt this what we said would happen in GM went under?
11/17/2012 3:01 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/16/2012 1:28:00 PM (view original):
That simplifies it too much.   Cost > sales.    The unions demanding more was just the final nail.

I only heard it as background noise but it seems some Boeing employees in SC got into a little hot water over talking unionization during work hours.   Which, if they had a ******* brain, they'd know the only reason Boeing moved from WA to SC was to get away from union costs.   It would be fitting for Boeing to say "**** this", close the SC plant and move their **** to Puerto Rico. 
Down south they also don't come to work in a timely fashion.
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