All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Prestige Multiplier (D1)
10/18/2012 8:52 PM
How much more of a recruiting effort would a D+ prestige school have to give compared to a C+ prestige school in D1. I know this has probably been answered before, and for that matter there probably is no definite answer, but what are the general thoughts regarding this?
10/18/2012 9:31 PM
70%
10/19/2012 8:41 AM
I don't have an answer, but I would hope that it isn't a tremendous amount.

The difference between D+ and C+ should not be that great, in my opinion, because most players in real life probably wouldn't give that much more credibility to a team with a slightly better reputation.

Now if you're talking A+ versus B+, I would imagine that difference to be much greater than the one between C+ and D+ (i.e. a real life player might fall all over himself if Duke or NC came after him, but if someone a bit lower did, he might merely be satisfied or may not even like them at all, depending upon the player).
10/19/2012 9:07 AM
makes sense bistiza, and maybe it works that way, but i dont think it does (and i dont think i can recall any long time d1ers thinking it does either). general rule of thumb, 70% on a letter grade is not a bad estimate for any prestige grade. its a little higher than the real figure but never bad to build in a cushion... if you think you can win at 70% you should go for it (assuming you have the disadvantage, that is).
10/19/2012 11:15 AM
So you'd be inclined to think you need 70% more effort at D+ versus a C+ team's coach, gillespie?

I do agree you should give more effort than you think you need to overcome the prestige difference for the sake of a cushion, unless you can't do it, and then you need to consider if the battle is worth it for that recruit if you're not sure you have the ability to make an effort that might make a difference and have a legit chance of landing him.
10/19/2012 12:05 PM
Posted by gillispie on 10/19/2012 9:07:00 AM (view original):
makes sense bistiza, and maybe it works that way, but i dont think it does (and i dont think i can recall any long time d1ers thinking it does either). general rule of thumb, 70% on a letter grade is not a bad estimate for any prestige grade. its a little higher than the real figure but never bad to build in a cushion... if you think you can win at 70% you should go for it (assuming you have the disadvantage, that is).
So what would the estimates be at division two and division three?
10/19/2012 12:41 PM
Posted by a_in_the_b on 10/19/2012 12:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie on 10/19/2012 9:07:00 AM (view original):
makes sense bistiza, and maybe it works that way, but i dont think it does (and i dont think i can recall any long time d1ers thinking it does either). general rule of thumb, 70% on a letter grade is not a bad estimate for any prestige grade. its a little higher than the real figure but never bad to build in a cushion... if you think you can win at 70% you should go for it (assuming you have the disadvantage, that is).
So what would the estimates be at division two and division three?
Much smaller.  The gap between a C and a B at DI is much bigger than a C and a B at DII or DIII.
10/19/2012 2:27 PM
d3 is 10% per letter grade or less, and i think the same can be said for d2. bistiza - no, i was saying as a D+, its safe to use 70% - meaning your disadvantage is smaller, not bigger.
10/19/2012 3:48 PM

Okay, I get what you are saying now, dahs.

I would agree with you on the 10% or less per letter grade at lower divisions, because I haven't noticed much difference in battles when it comes to varying prestige at those levels.

 

10/19/2012 4:11 PM
I don't think in D3 it's much more than 10% from C- to A+, if it's even that.  Maybe a little higher in D2, but not a lot.  10% per letter grade would give an average A+ about a 30% advantage over a C-, there's no way it's even in that ballpark in D3.  I rarely even look at prestige in D3 battles, and only give it a cursory glance in D2.  In fact, in some cases I'll consider lower prestige an advantage.  An excellent example is the guy you recently referenced that I took from you a few seasons back in D2 Phelan.  I couldn't determine who would win if we actually both fully committed to him - it would have been extremely close.  The big difference was that for me, he was significantly better than any other bigs I had scouted who would talk to me.  Quite significantly, actually.  I figured it wouldn't be worth as much to you to commit to that battle because with your higher prestige you likely had other options of a similar caliber available to you that weren't available to me.
10/19/2012 4:28 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 10/19/2012 4:11:00 PM (view original):
I don't think in D3 it's much more than 10% from C- to A+, if it's even that.  Maybe a little higher in D2, but not a lot.  10% per letter grade would give an average A+ about a 30% advantage over a C-, there's no way it's even in that ballpark in D3.  I rarely even look at prestige in D3 battles, and only give it a cursory glance in D2.  In fact, in some cases I'll consider lower prestige an advantage.  An excellent example is the guy you recently referenced that I took from you a few seasons back in D2 Phelan.  I couldn't determine who would win if we actually both fully committed to him - it would have been extremely close.  The big difference was that for me, he was significantly better than any other bigs I had scouted who would talk to me.  Quite significantly, actually.  I figured it wouldn't be worth as much to you to commit to that battle because with your higher prestige you likely had other options of a similar caliber available to you that weren't available to me.
Yeah I agree with all of this.  I always thought prestige had no direct impact at the D3 level and was surprised when I read people saying it did.  Now I've come to believe that it's just very small like dahs says, but honestly I've never really noticed it mattering in a D3 battle.

The last bit about the two schools' replacement value is a really good point.  I definitely try to think about things like that during recruiting.

10/19/2012 5:03 PM

I think D2 isn't anywhere near D1, but I'd suggest that it's a significant enough amount that it can't be ignored.

I was in a A vs C+ (at equal distance) and the C+ spent about $19k (plus promises) to my $13k (no promises).  Not really sure how the C+ spent the dollars, but the recruit signed with my A with a day and a half left in recruiting.  So it really wasn't a tossup.

10/19/2012 5:30 PM
I've had such good experience battling D2 schools as a D3 that I find it hard to believe prestige is significant even in D2.  I recently signed a player to D3 for about 8k over an A+ D2.  He signed 2-3 cycles after 7pm signings, and I believe I was way ahead the entire time.  If the multiplier from A+ D3 to A+ D2 is really something like 30-40%, then that suggests he spent only a few thousand (both schools were close, D2 slightly closer).  I didn't get a number from him, but it seems unlikely he would seek out a battle, and then come back after being knocked off the list, if he only had a few thousand to spend.  Or I dunno, maybe that's exactly what happened and I'm giving him too much credit.
10/19/2012 5:30 PM
Posted by Iguana1 on 10/19/2012 5:03:00 PM (view original):

I think D2 isn't anywhere near D1, but I'd suggest that it's a significant enough amount that it can't be ignored.

I was in a A vs C+ (at equal distance) and the C+ spent about $19k (plus promises) to my $13k (no promises).  Not really sure how the C+ spent the dollars, but the recruit signed with my A with a day and a half left in recruiting.  So it really wasn't a tossup.

I"d take a guess that two programs that far apart in prestige spending that amount of recruiting cash, the lower prestige school probably had to spend some $$$$ to pull down the recruit, thus not getting as much recruiting effort per dollar spent.
10/19/2012 6:27 PM
Posted by buddhagamer on 10/19/2012 5:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Iguana1 on 10/19/2012 5:03:00 PM (view original):

I think D2 isn't anywhere near D1, but I'd suggest that it's a significant enough amount that it can't be ignored.

I was in a A vs C+ (at equal distance) and the C+ spent about $19k (plus promises) to my $13k (no promises).  Not really sure how the C+ spent the dollars, but the recruit signed with my A with a day and a half left in recruiting.  So it really wasn't a tossup.

I"d take a guess that two programs that far apart in prestige spending that amount of recruiting cash, the lower prestige school probably had to spend some $$$$ to pull down the recruit, thus not getting as much recruiting effort per dollar spent.
he was a local recruit and a pulldown for both A and C+.  
He dropped to my A after 10 scouting trips.  Not sure how much more effort the C+ needed to invest to get on the consider list.    I spent an additional 34 home visits after he was considering me..
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