All Forums > Hardball Dynasty Baseball > Hardball Dynasty > Something Fishy with Max Contract Tiebreakers
8/7/2012 12:07 PM
#761 Free-Agency Q. A ML free agent in our world has several contracts offered to him that are the same exact value. How is it determined who he will sign with?
  A. When a free agent has multiple exact offers of any value at the ML level the tiebreakers are as follows: relevant IQs of the coaching staff and ballpark. If the players previous franchise is also bidding on him, then that franchise will receive a loyalty bonus. When the coaching staff is used to break the tie position players will look at the hitting IQ of the hitting coach and the fielding IQ of the fielding coach. Pitchers will look at the pitching IQ of the pitching coach and the bullpen coach. In cases where the offers are still tied and the coaching staff has been factored in ballpark is used to determine which franchise the player will sign with. Pitchers always want to pitch in a pitchers park, while position players will always want to play in a hitters park.


Four teams with max contracts out to a pitcher. The prior team is not involved.

Per the KB article, and my own experience, coaches are the first tiebreaker (note that ballparks are not mentioned unless offers are tied *after* coaching staff has been factored in).

Team 1 has a pitching coach of 97, no hired bullpen coach.
Team 2 has a pitching coach of 93, no hired bullpen coach.
Team 3 has a pitching coach of 91, a bullpen coach of 76.
Team 4 has no pitching coach, a bullpen coach of 74.

Who should be leading?

If it is team 3, is there a chance the player signs prior to teams 1 or 2 getting a bullpen coach to sign, thereby rendering the coaching advantage moot as a tiebreaker?
8/7/2012 12:14 PM
Nice discovery.  I mentioned it about 6 months ago.    FA sign before teams have P/BU coach all the time.  
8/7/2012 12:22 PM (edited)
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/7/2012 12:14:00 PM (view original):
Nice discovery.  I mentioned it about 6 months ago.    FA sign before teams have P/BU coach all the time.  
Sorry I missed that post; I don't make max contract offers often enough to have come up against it myself.

Did you mention it to CS, or just in the forums? Seems like a pretty big flaw impacting top talent (given this is likely to only arise in the situation of a max contract).

EDIT - Just to be clear, FA definitely sign before coaches in some instances, and that is fine. What is (perhaps) different here is that the player is sitting on multiple max offers. In *that* situation, have you ever seen him make a decision before the relevant teams have signed coaches?

8/7/2012 12:32 PM
Just here.

Well, since I've offered, and won, one max contract, I don't have that much experience with them so what I've been told is just hearsay.  Max guys have chosen the top bid before coaches were signed.  I'm not sure if they signed before the coaches did or if everyone left their max offer on the table(or if they were identical with player options/NTC).   Truthfully, only one person truly knows if they have a correct max offer.   People can say they do in order to ensure that the one owner keeps it there rather than bidding down. 

This is my one max bid player:  Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Sam Atchley    He put me at #1 as soon as I made it. I had neither a bullpen or pitching coach.   I signed a pitching coach on the last cycle(not sure about bullpen).   He signed well before then.   Others said they had max offers on him.
8/7/2012 4:43 PM
The max contract in MG, I was getting messages that he really wanted to be on my team if I would just up my offer.

Again, zero experience with max contract, but if I decided to lose my senses and make the max contract bid, I think the player was probably mine based on Mike`s "he loves me, he really loves me" theory.
8/8/2012 11:24 AM
There relevant portions of the exchange from higher level CS:

8/7/2012 1:11 PM Customer Support
If a player has multiple offers that are the exact same he will never accept an offer with the franchise that has a worse coaching staff. 

Here is an example, maybe that will make this more clear.

[...]

Another Example:

Franchise A - No relevant coaches
Franchise B - PC with IQ of 1, BU with IQ of 1
Franchise C - No relevant coaches

All things equal (contract value, no loyalty bonus, etc.) Franchise B will win the rights to the FA.

[...]

 
8/7/2012 1:37 PM zbrent716
In your second example, the FA will - without question - have ended up with the worst coaches, given that he signed with the *worst* coaches possible.

Franchises A and C will, at some point, have to sign coaches, correct? And they will, at worst, be tied with franchise B; in reality, they'll be better every time. 

Nevertheless, the player will have ended up on the team with the worst coaching staff possible (contrary to the tie-breakers) because those crappy coaches signed earlier.

Basically, you're just saying that an unsigned coach is treated as a 0? 

So a 50 PC pitching coach and a 48 PC bullpen coach would be deemed a better coaching situation than a 97 PC pitching coach and a currently vacant (but one that has to be filled) bullpen spot?

 
8/7/2012 3:04 PM Customer Support
If the situation in example 2 were to ever occur, then franchise B would win the FA. If we had to venture a guess this has probably occurred in less than 1% of all FA negotiations since we instituted the tiebreaker. 

You are correct that an unsigned coach is valued at 0. 

Finally, a PC with a 50IQ and a BU with a 48IQ is valued higher than a PC with a 97IQ and no BU coach hired. It is a straight summation of values and is not weighted.
8/8/2012 11:27 AM
And, interestingly enough, FA signings are run each cycle before coach signings.

So, in the situation I was just in, I signed the top bullpen coach at the 11:23 PM cycle, but had to sweat it out because the FA could have signed that same cycle, before the coach had signed. It was not until the 3:56 Am cycle that my coaching staff (pitching and bullpen) was evaluated and deemed complete, at which point I took the lead on the FA.
8/8/2012 2:00 PM
One question, is the Pitching IQ rating on a coach the sole factor in what makes a great coach.

PC1 has a Pitching IQ of 90 a patience rating of 50 and a discpline rating of 50
PC2 has a Pitching IQ of 80, a patience rating of 80 and a discpline rating of 80
PC3 has a Pitching IQ of 75, a patience rating of 95 and a discpline rating of 95.

Which one is the best pitching coach?  Do patience and discpline play a role?  Are some pitchers more prone to sign w/ a guy with higher discipline and/or patience than another given all else being equal?
8/8/2012 2:40 PM
Posted by taz21 on 8/8/2012 2:00:00 PM (view original):
One question, is the Pitching IQ rating on a coach the sole factor in what makes a great coach.

PC1 has a Pitching IQ of 90 a patience rating of 50 and a discpline rating of 50
PC2 has a Pitching IQ of 80, a patience rating of 80 and a discpline rating of 80
PC3 has a Pitching IQ of 75, a patience rating of 95 and a discpline rating of 95.

Which one is the best pitching coach?  Do patience and discpline play a role?  Are some pitchers more prone to sign w/ a guy with higher discipline and/or patience than another given all else being equal?
PC1. For pitching and bullpen coaches (for tiebreaking purposes, anyway) pitching IQ is all that matters.
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