6/22/2012 2:53 PM
Your certainty surely doesn't matter to anyone with a HOF vote.

Maybe we could stick to what we know to be fact and not your gut instinct.
6/22/2012 2:54 PM
BTW, until you provide a copy of the memo where Vincent specifically mentions steroids, I'm gonna call bullshit.    The link I provided shows a copy of the memo.  "Illegal drugs". 
6/22/2012 2:57 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/22/2012 2:54:00 PM (view original):
BTW, until you provide a copy of the memo where Vincent specifically mentions steroids, I'm gonna call bullshit.    The link I provided shows a copy of the memo.  "Illegal drugs". 
Here you go.

http://www.steroidsinbaseball.net/assets/memo.pdf
6/22/2012 2:58 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/22/2012 2:53:00 PM (view original):
Your certainty surely doesn't matter to anyone with a HOF vote.

Maybe we could stick to what we know to be fact and not your gut instinct.
That's the intelligent counterargument I was looking for.
6/22/2012 6:53 PM
Posted by thejuice6 on 6/22/2012 2:50:00 PM (view original):
Steroids or not, do you really think Manny Ramirez belongs in the Hall of Fame?  Isn't "quitting" on your team, while not as blatant as gambling, just as bad as betting on them to lose?  In my opinion, even without the positive test results, his dumb *** doesn't get in without buying a ticket.  JMHO...

Manny hit .312/.411/.585 with 555 homers. Leaving him out of the HOF would be solely because of the PED tests.
6/22/2012 7:16 PM
Getting back to Clemens, there's still no meention of HGH that I can find until 2005 (thanks for the link re: steroids, btw).  Therefore, I still don't think you cab make a credible argument about his pre-2005 stats being 'tainted' since, if he did use HGH, it wasn't against the rules.
6/22/2012 7:24 PM
If he only used HGH, I guess.  I think he used steroids, but I'm also not trying to keep him out of the hall of fame.
10/29/2012 5:28 PM
And three days later, jrdx is gone for good. 
1/15/2013 2:34 PM
So, with Armstrong coming clean, does that convince you that Clemens obviously used?   Do you expect to see Clemens on Oprah's couch in the near future?
1/15/2013 2:55 PM
Does anyone really think that Clemens didn't do steroids? He and Bonds both belong in the Hall of Fame, but let's not be naive.
1/15/2013 3:03 PM
Nothings changed for me, he's still an obvious user.

I would say that there's little chance to him admitting anything in his lifetime, after all the work he's done to clear his name...but I thought the same of Armstrong, so who knows.
1/15/2013 3:07 PM
That was kind of my point.   Armstrong went after a lot of people, Clemens only went after McNamee, so I was surprised to hear a confession.   I don't know what he hopes to gain. 
1/15/2013 3:09 PM
He's losing money.  Maybe trying to repair his image, somehow become a sympathetic figure, and make more money again?
1/15/2013 3:15 PM
I don't know how he expects that to happen. 

Does anyone feel sorry for the whistleblowers that got him in trouble?   Of course not.  They were doing the same thing, less successfully, and spoke out.  By all accounts, Armstrong isn't exactly a nice fellow(see: Clemens).    The more he talks, the more that will be exposed.
1/15/2013 3:30 PM

The difference is, Lance was a hero, those guys no one ever cared about one way or the other.  A pretty large segment of public is generally pretty willing to forgive their heroes if they give them a reason to, and I've seen plenty of people out there ready to give him a pass as a person on this because of all the good he did with the platform his cheating got them.  He's never going to be what he was, but I think there's room to repair his image - especially in regard his charitable work.

More practically, he was given a lifetime ban from anything USADA administers, and that includes any triathalon and marathon that USA Track and Field is involved with.  If he knows where other bodies are buried and can help their investigation, there's precedent for having that reduced or eliminated altogether.

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