All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Cam Newton GOAT Thread
11/11/2011 9:47 AM
best rookie season in NFL history or major sports history?
11/11/2011 9:57 AM
No.

THREAD CLOSED.

11/11/2011 10:04 AM
11/11/2011 10:16 AM
11/11/2011 10:17 AM
NFL ranks

att/g: 8th
y/a: 4th
ny/a: 4th
any/a: 8th

his comp% is middle of the road which is great for a rookie throwing so many deep routes.  his TD's are middle of the road because he runs in a lot of scores, and his INTs are middle of the road because he gets back bounces.

he's also 36th in the league in rush yards and tied for 3rd with 7 TD's. 
11/11/2011 10:20 AM
Filthy thief and cheater.
11/11/2011 10:22 AM
don't care what you think about his personality, he's a great QB
11/11/2011 10:28 AM
Stealing and cheating are not personality traits.  
11/11/2011 10:31 AM (edited)
11 TDs and 9 INTs in 8 games.

Tebow already has as many wins, with more than half the TDs and only 1 INT in 3 games. I guarantee he'll have at least 4 wins and a better TD/INT ratio than 11/9 after 8 starts. But hey, as long as Cam stays above the magic 55%!

11/11/2011 10:31 AM
well that's retarded criteria to judge a QB

tebow's not in the same conversation as cam.  all of the stats you're citing are highly subject to variance and none of them put tebow in the same ballpark as cam.
11/11/2011 10:34 AM

What a shocker, deano once again arbitrarily selecting the stats that "matter".

I'd say TDs and INTs are a very good judge of a QBs effectiveness.  I'll bet there have been many rookie QBs with full seasons who had less than a pick a game. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford come immediately to mind. 

By your definitions, if we ignore picks and horrible decisions, Favre is hands-down the greatest QB of all time.

11/11/2011 10:42 AM
TD's and INT's matter, but they are also subject to high variance.  Look at Brady: 4 INTs in 16 games last year, 10 INTs in 8 games this year.  It's possible for QB's to make perfectly good throws that get picked, and terribly awful throws that don't, so you can't invest too much in a small sample of those stats.  Obviously Favre gambled a lot and it affected his value, since he often make bad decisions at critical moments.

Now that that's out of the way, let's establish a few things

1) I've seen a good portion of Cam's games, and a lot of the picks weren't bad decisions.  Just tips, bad bounces, etc.
2) Still are 12 QB's with higher INT rates, he's throwing picks at a barely below average rate.  It's definitely not bad at all given his offensive production.
3) You can't blow Tebow for avoiding picks when he does it by throwing the ball away all the damn time and taking a million and a half sacks.  Yeah it's great to not turn the ball over, but if you do it at the cost of not advancing down the field there's a limit to how much it can help you.
11/11/2011 10:46 AM
Yes, but you're forgetting one thing.

Your argument wasn't that Cam is a good QB...it's that he's having the greatest rookie season of all time.  Sure, Brady has 10 picks this year - but you don't hear anyone saying he's having the best season for an NFL QB ever (or even the best season of his career).  THAT is the difference.

Is Cam's TD/INT ratio evidence he's a bad QB? No. But it's evidence he's not having the greatest rookie season ever, which was your argument.
11/11/2011 10:47 AM
Frankly there have been so many NBA players with far greater rookies seasons then Cam that you can just get rid of any talk of major sports history.

As for football, no, but at least you could make an argument that Cam would be in that discussion (if he continues along at a similar pace). 

I mean Jim Brown won the AP MVP as a rookie and did so by leading the league in Rushing Yards (he had 942 next closest was 700), Rushing TD's (9 next closest 7),  Rushing Yards per game (78.5, next 58.3), he was 4th in Yards from Scrimmage, 6th in All Purpose Yards, 2nd in touches, etc.  I'd say a MVP season eclipses Cam.
11/11/2011 10:49 AM

Cam has the 18th highest TD% among 34 qualified QB's- again right in the middle of the road.  But that also ignores the fact that he's on pace to break the record for QB rushing TD's in a season.

So once you add those in he has the 5th most TDs in the NFL behind Rodgers/Brady/Brees/Stafford, some pretty good *************.

wrt the w/l record, I don't see how you can use that to detract from what he's done.  Panthers have lost a lot of close games for ****** reasons.  They lost close games to the packers, saints, and bears because the defense allowed 30+.  They lost to the vikings because newton's 1st down run was called back on a questionable hold and then mare choked on a chip shot FG for the tie.  they've had an anemic defense and ****** luck, they'll finish like 5-11 or w/e this year but i guarantee you that cam ends up winning more games as a starting QB than tebow once everything evens out in time.

what he has done is turned one of the worst offenses in NFL history into a pretty good offense, which is really an amazing feat in and of itself.  don't think you can ask for him to play ST/defense too.

so basically you're being a harsh critic in areas where a) it's hard to draw meaningful conclusions in small samples and b) even if you could draw conclusions from the small samples, it wouldn't be that newton isn't good

hope that helps.

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