8/16/2011 4:48 AM
Posted by reinsel on 8/15/2011 2:40:00 PM (view original):
Girt is right.  In Allen there was a 10 year period where a non big 6 team won 5 of the 10 NTs.  After recruiting changed...none.
Fair enough.  Was merely throwing out other possible ways to fix the issue besides going back to old recruit generation. 

I wasn't in D-1 10-15 seasons ago, so you guys would know better than me.

8/16/2011 8:08 AM
Posted by girt25 on 8/15/2011 10:39:00 PM (view original):
Well, we'll find out in C-USA Rupp. In our fourth season, at this point from an rpi perspective we're in BCS territory, but not yet from a true talent perspective. The hope is that a few more seasons of numerous NT berths and prestige bumps will let us amass enough talent to make some NT runs.
I know you all are trying that there. I bet a lesser group of coaches could get it done out West where there's less competition for recruits from the big boys.
8/16/2011 9:40 AM
Posted by grantduck on 8/16/2011 4:48:00 AM (view original):
Posted by reinsel on 8/15/2011 2:40:00 PM (view original):
Girt is right.  In Allen there was a 10 year period where a non big 6 team won 5 of the 10 NTs.  After recruiting changed...none.
Fair enough.  Was merely throwing out other possible ways to fix the issue besides going back to old recruit generation. 

I wasn't in D-1 10-15 seasons ago, so you guys would know better than me.

They simply need a happy medium between the old generation and the current one.
8/16/2011 11:11 AM
CUSA is the only full conference in Rupp. Sims will drag any conf dooooown.
8/17/2011 12:57 AM
Posted by gillispie on 8/14/2011 7:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 8/14/2011 11:51:00 AM (view original):
A couple hundred bucks gets you what, a scouting trip?

You can ***** about playing against "cheaters" all day and I'll more than gladly rub elbows with any/all of them at my current "disadvantage".  The savvy recruiter gets the guys they want/need, regardless of the circumstances.  Again, if you have 2 teams in the same world and aren't using it to your advantage, you're dumb.

And lastly, again, you want to solve the problem...make FSS free for everyone, that levels the playing field.  The current "problem" is impossible to police, so why not just solve it?
wow. you are such an idiot. nothing more than a waste of oxygen. if i ever get terminally ill, you are on the list of people i am going to take down with me. not because i hate you - but because humans have largely weeded out natural selection and you are a prime example of how bad that is for the human race - so i hope when i am about to die, i can make my small contribution to bringing it back.
Just quoting this for future reference and wondering at the same time how this "gem" managed to slide by with little to no comment on it.

Oh well, it'll be useful the next time someone proclaims Gillispie to be a "good guy", so it can be shown through his own words, that no, he's really not.

Nothing else to see here, move on........
8/17/2011 8:11 PM
For the record, I totaled the elite 8 since 2000 in real life (12 years, 96 teams) ... here are the results by conference:

Horizon = 2
CAA = 2
A10 = 4
CUSA = 4
Southern  = 1
MAC  = 1
Non Big Six = 14 or 14/96 = 14.6%

SEC = 12
Big-12 = 17
Pac-12 = 11
Big East = 15
ACC = 12
Big Ten = 15
Total from Big Six Conferences = 82 or 82/96 = 85.4%

So, basically, there is on average one non-Big6 team in the elite eight every year.
8/17/2011 9:33 PM
Hughes, 14.6% is not huge, but it is significant. The three worlds that I'm in are getting around 1/16 in the S16 and 0/8 in the E8. It's rare for a non-BCS school to beat a BCS school. Most non-BCS schools advance because of non-BCS competition.
8/17/2011 9:39 PM
For example, in Knight the NT is about to start. Based on the bracket, there will likely be one non-BCS S16 team, and it will likely come from this group:

6 E. Illinois
11 Rutgers University
3 Illinois-Chicago
14 U.S. Naval Academy
8/17/2011 11:40 PM
Posted by hughesjr on 8/17/2011 8:11:00 PM (view original):
For the record, I totaled the elite 8 since 2000 in real life (12 years, 96 teams) ... here are the results by conference:

Horizon = 2
CAA = 2
A10 = 4
CUSA = 4
Southern  = 1
MAC  = 1
Non Big Six = 14 or 14/96 = 14.6%

SEC = 12
Big-12 = 17
Pac-12 = 11
Big East = 15
ACC = 12
Big Ten = 15
Total from Big Six Conferences = 82 or 82/96 = 85.4%

So, basically, there is on average one non-Big6 team in the elite eight every year.
There have been zero in the last four Allen NT's combined. I didn't go back farther than that.

The difference is likely even more stark when comparing the Sweet 16, where there are more real-life Cinderellas but still incredibly few in HD.

But from a truly big picture view, I think the stats you provided -- whether it 4%, 14% or 24% -- are utterly meaningless. What's clearly transpired here is that many people have been alienated from DI because they feel they can't compete nationally outside of the BCS conferences. And what's important here is not having a system that exactly mirrors the real-life percentages of non-BCS teams in the S16 or E8 (and mind you, the current system doesn't even do that). What's important is finding the right balance for the health of HD, where it's not just the coaches in six conferences who feel they can compete.

That feeling has been the death knell for HD DI ... and if you think the stats you posted truly matter, you don't get that.
8/18/2011 3:57 PM
Future Stars Scouting has something to do with all of this.  Either making it more expensive to use the service, or make the service less reliable than a scouting report, and it might rebalance things.  Maybe you get free or cheap for up to X# of recruits (so if your school is in TX, for example, all you get is TX for cheap/free, but if you live in Maine you can scout much of New England for cheap or free).  Also if it became easier for a category to be "green" then a lot more players would look attractive from afar.  Not until you did a couple of scouts would you realize the guy isn't the total stud you thought he was.   Just some ideas.
8/18/2011 7:04 PM
Update on Knight - 2 non-BCS schools in the sweet 16 - Nevada and Illinois-Chicago. And btw theeyetest, Rutgers is a BCS school.
8/18/2011 11:31 PM (edited)
I know (me = eyetest). I got fired from Rutgers once in Wooden.. Given that group of four teams, it was unlikely that Rutgers would make it through. The other non-BCS S16 team was in a similar regional with one weakish BCS team.
8/19/2011 2:52 PM
I guess the fact that I stop by the main forum roughly 1x a month now nearly had me miss this gem of a thread.  It's a real shame, because I've had specific interactions with most of the guys on both sides of this thread.  The fact is, you can gain an advantage by having 2 teams in the same world, as I also do.  But the more important thing is, that if you are actually doing it, then it's going to be obvious and you should be kicked out of the game for it.  Likewise, if your panties are in such a knot that you really think someone is running multiple teams for that purpose, then you take this game way too seriously.

For those that don't know, I did have someone go to CS about me running multiple teams because they deemed them to close... and to this day, that person(s) never had the maturity to confront me personally.  It's a shame that someone would be so paranoid and spineless over a sim game. 

I skimmed some of the comments and had to laugh at things like "the only reason you'd have 2 teams is to cheat!"  Really?  That's how you think?  You must be a very sad individual (sorry, not taking the time to find out who it was, and frankly I don't care).  In my case, it's because A.) I'm playing for free on 1; B.) I joined up with the other for a little contest and good conference fun; and C.) By having both teams doing the same stuff at the same time, it's much more convenient.  

Some of you guys really need to get away from your online worlds and relax a little. 
8/19/2011 2:52 PM
Posted by mldynasty on 8/19/2011 2:52:00 PM (view original):
I guess the fact that I stop by the main forum roughly 1x a month now nearly had me miss this gem of a thread.  It's a real shame, because I've had specific interactions with most of the guys on both sides of this thread.  The fact is, you can gain an advantage by having 2 teams in the same world, as I also do.  But the more important thing is, that if you are actually doing it, then it's going to be obvious and you should be kicked out of the game for it.  Likewise, if your panties are in such a knot that you really think someone is running multiple teams for that purpose, then you take this game way too seriously.

For those that don't know, I did have someone go to CS about me running multiple teams because they deemed them to close... and to this day, that person(s) never had the maturity to confront me personally.  It's a shame that someone would be so paranoid and spineless over a sim game. 

I skimmed some of the comments and had to laugh at things like "the only reason you'd have 2 teams is to cheat!"  Really?  That's how you think?  You must be a very sad individual (sorry, not taking the time to find out who it was, and frankly I don't care).  In my case, it's because A.) I'm playing for free on 1; B.) I joined up with the other for a little contest and good conference fun; and C.) By having both teams doing the same stuff at the same time, it's much more convenient.  

Some of you guys really need to get away from your online worlds and relax a little. 
... and for the record... this is my alt account. 
8/19/2011 9:43 PM
Posted by gillispie1 on 8/12/2011 5:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by milkamania on 8/12/2011 3:48:00 PM (view original):
Gill, if I may ask a yes or no question without making any judgements as I am fine with 2 teams in the same world as long as CS says it is within the rules.   If I am not mistaken, your 2 teams in Tark are Texas A&M and Kentucky.   The question is, do you ever FSS scout the same state with both schools?  Given that Tennessee, Illinois, Missouri, Arkansas, etc can easily be recruited by both, I am curious.  Again, I don't mean to sound accusatory, as I said, I have no problem with it, but I am curious.  Same question would apply to anyone else with multiple teams in the same world?
milk - great question. and no worries - i am more than happy to explain my system and your question does not offend me in the slightest.

here is my policy - if my teams are so close that i have overlapping regions (where i have to scout the same state on both), i refuse to have them, because of the potential for unintentionally giving myself an advantage. so i maintain "safety" by following two simple rules:
1) never scout the same state on both schools
2) never recruit a player i have not scouted

other than internationals, this means that i cannot possibly use information from one school to benefit the other. even if i was recruiting with say UK, and looked at arkansas, i could notice a player and then end up scouting on a&m when i may not have done so. so, strictly speaking, even if i scouted say arkansas on both schools, i could have used information from one to the advantage of the other.

therefore, i segregate the states from the start. i don't want to reveal too much about my recruiting strategy but suffice it to say that i generally will check out the border states without FSS on either, and based on the scholarship needs and possibly who has been local recruits, i will decide who gets to scout those border states, and it may often be neither school.
I think this is a fair enough answer.  I wonder what the effect with your D2 team is though?  Having a D2 team in the southern part of Illinois and a D1 team in northcentral Kentucky must be difficult when it comes to not overlapping states when it comes to scouting.  If you were to tell us that you FSS some of the same states with your D2 team that you do with Kentucky, I think most people would agree that to be reasonable.  I also think most people would find it difficult to believe that you don't use some of the FSS information that you gain with Kentucky to help your D2 team (SIU, Edwardsville) in southern Illinois (I mean, they can't be more than a couple of hundred miles apart in the real world.  Would be awfully hard not to be looking at recruits in some of the same states, don't you think?).  If you don't, hey great, I applaud you.  If you do, well, I guess that's a whole different discussion.......
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