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8/8/2011 9:11 AM
wow...I don't have a DI team. I didn't realize that it even affected other BCS conferences.
8/8/2011 9:21 AM
I agree except for the fact that if the SEC cant compete with the ACC, it's the fault of the SEC coaches, not the game.  
8/8/2011 10:09 AM
I don't know Mully.  Right now the ACC is pulling in $50-$65k in NT money.  The SEC/Big East are getting 10-15k.

What do you do if you have $55-60k for 3 openings and your neighbors have $100k for the same 3 openings?  Brains matter, but not that much.

I realize 20 seasons ago the SEC/Big East made dumb decisions that got them in this predicament, but joining the SEC/Big East now, is there even a prayer of getting it back the other way?
8/8/2011 10:12 AM (edited)
Posted by mullycj on 8/8/2011 9:21:00 AM (view original):
I agree except for the fact that if the SEC cant compete with the ACC, it's the fault of the SEC coaches, not the game.  
Yup. I figured that would get seized on. My point was simply to highlight that even other high-level BCS schools can get left behind when a bunch of good coaches get together in one conference.

You're correct in that the SEC could have the means to compete, but as you hinted at, it depends on the coaches. Put a few sims in a BCS conference, and it doesn't matter how skilled the rest of the coaches are--there's no strategy that overcomes a coach with a recruiting budget that's double yours. And yes, that has always been the case. But now the huge gap in recruit skill makes it much easier for the "haves" to perpetuate the status quo.
8/8/2011 10:12 AM
Posted by reinsel on 8/8/2011 10:11:00 AM (view original):
I don't know Mully.  Right now the ACC is pulling in $50-$65k in NT money.  The SEC/Big East are getting 10-15k.

What do you do if you have $55-60k for 3 openings and your neighbors have $100k for the same 3 openings?  Brains matter, but not that much.

I realize 20 seasons ago the SEC/Big East made dumb decisions that got them in this predicament, but joining the SEC/Big East now, is there even a prayer of getting it back the other way?
The primary factor is the huge gulf between coaching talent in the two conferences.

The ACC is pretty much an all-star team when it comes to coaches.(And it's clearly not just because we get a bunch of recruiting cash ... everyone there has been extremely successful elsewhere, in Allen and/or other worlds. There's only one coach in the conference without a national championship, and 10 of the 12 have multiple national titles.)

The SEC has four legit coaches (I won't name names, but a couple are in this thread) and a bunch of guys not equipped to compete with top-level coaches.

8/8/2011 10:54 AM
The problem is that once a conference like the SEC has one or two down seasons while the ACC is doing really well, the average SEC schools is set back multiple seasons because of the vast differences in recruiting money available. 

Prestige is also wack, but I don't think CS particularly cares about that. 
8/8/2011 10:57 AM

The ACC is Allen has become a self-fulfilling prophecy.  While other conferences have had SIMs - some for an extended period - the ACC has not, and the disadvantages facing a coach coming into a current Big East school in Allen trying to compete with surrounding ACC schools is pretty darn significant, regardless of the level of coaching talent in the ACC. 

8/8/2011 11:18 AM
I agree its MUCH tougher to climb back now than before.   But I still feel that if you are willing to take small steps that you can close the gap (assuming equal coaching talent.)    
8/8/2011 11:38 AM
Posted by jslotman on 8/8/2011 10:57:00 AM (view original):

The ACC is Allen has become a self-fulfilling prophecy.  While other conferences have had SIMs - some for an extended period - the ACC has not, and the disadvantages facing a coach coming into a current Big East school in Allen trying to compete with surrounding ACC schools is pretty darn significant, regardless of the level of coaching talent in the ACC. 

This is true. No question. That said, do I think a good coach could come into the SEC or BEast and be successful? Absolutely.
8/8/2011 11:43 AM
I also think that teams like Clemson, Virginia Tech, and Miami have vastly overrated baseline prestiges, while some other teams (Mississippi State, for instance) should probably be higher.  (Not that Mississippi State should be higher than a B, but VPI, Clemson, and Miami should be way lower than a B based on the real world of basketball). 
8/8/2011 11:58 AM
Any response from CS yet?
8/8/2011 12:34 PM
Posted by jslotman on 8/8/2011 11:43:00 AM (view original):
I also think that teams like Clemson, Virginia Tech, and Miami have vastly overrated baseline prestiges, while some other teams (Mississippi State, for instance) should probably be higher.  (Not that Mississippi State should be higher than a B, but VPI, Clemson, and Miami should be way lower than a B based on the real world of basketball). 
I'd say that all four of those schools are similarly mediocre in real life. Not sure why Miss State should be higher.
8/8/2011 12:59 PM
Many of the ACC schools are over-baselined.  Though I would not think Clemson/Miami/VT need to be worse than a B though. 

Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, NC State and Boston College are all A- level, which seems out of wack with the other A- schools:

Georgetown, Louisville, Cincy, Indiana, Wisconsin, Florida, Stanford & Oklahoma.  I'd argue that any group of 4 of those 8 are better than Wake/GT/NCState/BC. 

Virginia doesn't need to be a B+ and Maryland could be just a regular A- instead of an A as well.
8/8/2011 1:20 PM
Posted by reinsel on 8/8/2011 12:59:00 PM (view original):
Many of the ACC schools are over-baselined.  Though I would not think Clemson/Miami/VT need to be worse than a B though. 

Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, NC State and Boston College are all A- level, which seems out of wack with the other A- schools:

Georgetown, Louisville, Cincy, Indiana, Wisconsin, Florida, Stanford & Oklahoma.  I'd argue that any group of 4 of those 8 are better than Wake/GT/NCState/BC. 

Virginia doesn't need to be a B+ and Maryland could be just a regular A- instead of an A as well.
Yeah, I agree with some of those, just not the original three schools that js pointed out.

That said, we all know there are plenty of baselines that don't really make sense today (almost a decade after WIS initially assigned values).

Also, it's not the baseline prestiges that are propping up their current prestiges, it's the outrageous conference success. (That's pretty easy to ascertain; just take a look at other schools that have the same baseline prestiges as FSU, Va Tech, etc. that have equal or better resumes and lower current prestiges.) 
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