All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > Meet the super-range team (+ play tracking thread)
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7/21/2011 4:35 PM
thanks thunder!
7/25/2011 12:11 PM
Here are the defensive stats from an open league I recently played in.  Excluding catchers, pitchers and other random scrubs, I had 211 "+" plays. 

Player Season Pos GS Putluts Assists DPs Errors Plus Minus Fielding Pct RangeFactor
Cap Anson 1885 1B 162 1698 120 109 10 40 0 99.50% 11.75
Bid McPhee 1887 2B 162 357 597 87 23 41 1 97.60% 5.93
Denny Lyons 1889 3B 162 130 290 15 33 26 0 92.70% 2.71
Jack Glasscock 1887 SS 162 354 542 99 34 34 0 96.30% 5.57
Ned Hanlon 1890 LF 162 278 7 0 8 16 0 97.30% 1.77
Harry Stovey 1886 CF 162 385 3 0 9 28 0 97.70% 2.51
Fred Carroll 1886 RF 162 324 8 1 6 26 0 98.20% 2.06
                211      
7/25/2011 2:09 PM
Hmmmm, why did RF have more chances than LF?
7/25/2011 2:38 PM
in an OL, it wouldn't surprise me if there was an abnormal distribution of left-handed hitters.
7/25/2011 2:48 PM
Taken from the OL snap shot...looks like RF and LF aren't very different


              LF CF RF
O/G:                  
PO/G:             3.7 5.1 3.7
A/G:             0.07 0.08 0.09
TC/G:             3.9 5.3 3.9
DP/G:             0.00 0.01 0.01
+/G:             .059 .064 .074
-/G:             .040 .123 .079
Fld%:             0.970 0.974 0.970
RF:             1.90 2.61 1.89
E/G:             .117 .140 .116
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10/30/2011 8:03 PM
Bumping this up again.
10/31/2011 12:05 AM

This is highly informative but also a little confusing for a relative newb like me. I am trying to draw a few practical conclusions. Please correct me if I am wring in any of them. From this info i would conclude that even after the update D range is still more valuable than many think. It is more important for a 3B than we have been led to believe. It is more important for IF than OF. I should spend more $$ therefore, on OF who hit and on IF who field well. I should put my worst defensive OF in left as opposed to right field, though that difference might be minimal. Am I getting this right? What am I missing?

10/31/2011 2:54 AM
I don't come to quite the same conclusions from this thread that you do.  Yes, D range is still important, even after the update.  IF range is more important than OF range.  I would still put my worst defensive OF in right, except against a lineup of predominantly left handed hitters, and I would put my best defensive outfielder in CF.  I use a grossly simplistic rule of thumb for measuring the relative merits of offense and defense which jfranco77 is too smart and too sophisticated to use, although it's good for my simple brain.  I look at the differenbtial in runs created (RC) and then compare it to the differential between + and - plays between two players of comparable price, all other factors being equal (which they usually aren't).

Let's say there are two $6 MM OF's and the one with the good offense has 120 RC's on average in his SIM history and the defense-oriented OF has 80 RC's on average.  That's a differential of 40.  Let's say the offensive OF has no plus plays and 10 - plays, and the defensive OF has 20 + plays and 0 - plays.  That's a total differential of 30.  Assuming that each + or - play is worth one run, which it isn't (as indicated above, the number is slightly lower than that for IF's, quite a bit lower for OF's).  But even using that grossly oversimplified approach, the offensive OF would be worth 10 "more" runs than the defensive OF. (40 differential v. 30 in that example)

I don't recommend this rule of thumb, and it obviously ignores the composition of the rest of your lineup, your home ballkpark, your pitchers, your competition and a lot of other factors.  But it's one way of looking at the issue.

Having said all that, even though it can probably be proven that in most cases offense is a little more valuable than D range, I still have a weakness for big range fielders, especially up the middle.  Obviously the best bargains are reasonably priced players who excel at both offense and defense -- Carlos Beltran in the OF (good for steals, too) and Terry Pendleton at 3B come immediately to mind.
10/31/2011 4:14 PM
Thanks, Thunder, but why would you not also subtract the difference in erors made in your calculations?
10/31/2011 4:26 PM
Posted by firesalt on 10/31/2011 12:05:00 AM (view original):

This is highly informative but also a little confusing for a relative newb like me. I am trying to draw a few practical conclusions. Please correct me if I am wring in any of them. From this info i would conclude that even after the update D range is still more valuable than many think. It is more important for a 3B than we have been led to believe. It is more important for IF than OF. I should spend more $$ therefore, on OF who hit and on IF who field well. I should put my worst defensive OF in left as opposed to right field, though that difference might be minimal. Am I getting this right? What am I missing?

Defense is definitely valuable. I didn't have any idea how valuable it was until I did this research. 

Having said that, it's also extremely expensive. And I'm not 100% sure it's worth the cost. 

Having a good 3B can definitely save you a lot of hits. I don't think people realize that a 3B can have as big an impact on your defense as a good 2B/SS. 

+ plays are nice and shiny in the outfield, and some of them save you a ton of runs, but a lot of them are negligible. So yes, if I had money to spend on range, it would be at 2B/SS/3B and then maybe CF. 
5/23/2012 11:08 AM
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All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > Meet the super-range team (+ play tracking thread)

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