4/18/2006 11:37 AM
COOPERSTOWN, NY (AP) - Major League Baseball Hall of Famers and active players stormed the quaint city of Cooperstown today in protest of recent "ominous, idiotic" trends in Whatifsports Sim League baseball. Angered by the disrespect shown to HOF'ers and all stars in open leagues, many legends took to the streets.
"It's an abomination, plain and simple. Sadie McMahon threw underhand for crissakes, and he gets more innings in one season than I do in fifty," complained Steve Carlton, in a rare moment of outspoken candor with the media. "I'd like to see Al Orth face McCovey in Wrigley a few times, that'd fatten up his stupid hr/9 stat." Hoyt Wilhelm and Rollie Fingers were on hand representing legendary relievers, lamenting "it really bites my *** to see Barry Latman pitching for half the teams. I mean, I know he had a few effective innings in '58, but to be honest, the guy's career can't touch Aaron Sele's jock."
Pitchers are not the only victims. "Ya know, you'd think with all those extra base hits, great defense, and homers I hit, I'd get a shot once and a while," carped HOFer George Brett. Joe Morgan continued "I know Bid McPhee and Ski Mellilo are legendary baseball names, but I had a few good seasons too you know." Legendary outfielders with names like Mays, Musial, Snider, as well as a few active players like Jones, Hunter, Griffey, were on hand to voice their complaints. "Richie Ashburn's friggin' legs are going to fall off. How many seasons can that runt play before he pops a knee," whined Snider, continuing "if I played in that giant cow pasture Shibe with a bunch of flyball pitchers, I'd have some bloody range factor numbers that'd singe your hair. I could cover ground." Torii Hunter could only shake his head "Taylor Douthit, Chet Lemon, bite me."
Attorneys for the HOF'ers are filing complaints in federal court against the programmers of whatifsports. David Boies, lead counsel, summarizes the situation "There are serious issues with the credibility and playability of this sim. If certain irregularities in the sim engine are not addressed, I am afraid we will never be able to know the true credibility of these league results." All parties hope for a speedy return to something resembling reality, where speedy fielders, cavernous ballparks, and pitchers with statistical "illusions" built into their records do not routinely knock off players with proven, sabremetric value.
Attorneys for whatifsports could not be reached for comment.
4/18/2006 11:56 AM



Richie Ashburn Barry Latman


4/18/2006 12:08 PM




4/18/2006 12:09 PM
Good one.
Which resembelance of reality do you want, though? You want to have Pedro pitching to Babe Ruth, you got to accept some ration of un-reality. How much is too much?
This is currently the best version of the sim, and it gets better every release.
They know about the problems, they're working on them.
4/18/2006 12:15 PM





4/18/2006 12:16 PM
You're right, Len. It is tough to decide how to do these things. I think you can make an argument that any seasons played before modern-type stadiums were standard in the league (i.e., eliminate 19th century, and maybe the 1st decade of the 20th) shouldn't be used, because the statistical aberrations are too difficult to reasonably correct for.
I think Bill James' win shares system is the best thing we have for judging the relative values of players across a broad spectrum of seasons, park settings, pitching and managerial trends, etc. It's more or less neutral...
Defense seems to matter way, way too much in this sim, to my admittedly less experienced eye.
4/18/2006 12:17 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By johnpaul0 on 4/18/2006

COOPERSTOWN, NY (AP) - Major League Baseball Hall of Famers and active players stormed the quaint city of Cooperstown today in protest of recent "ominous, idiotic" trends in Whatifsports Sim League baseball. Angered by the disrespect shown to HOF'ers and all stars in open leagues, many legends took to the streets.
"It's an abomination, plain and simple. Sadie McMahon threw underhand for crissakes, and he gets more innings in one season than I do in fifty," complained Steve Carlton, in a rare moment of outspoken candor with the media. "I'd like to see Al Orth face McCovey in Wrigley a few times, that'd fatten up his stupid hr/9 stat." Hoyt Wilhelm and Rollie Fingers were on hand representing legendary relievers, lamenting "it really bites my *** to see Barry Latman pitching for half the teams. I mean, I know he had a few effective innings in '58, but to be honest, the guy's career can't touch Aaron Sele's jock."
Pitchers are not the only victims. "Ya know, you'd think with all those extra base hits, great defense, and homers I hit, I'd get a shot once and a while," carped HOFer George Brett. Joe Morgan continued "I know Bid McPhee and Ski Mellilo are legendary baseball names, but I had a few good seasons too you know." Legendary outfielders with names like Mays, Musial, Snider, as well as a few active players like Jones, Hunter, Griffey, were on hand to voice their complaints. "Richie Ashburn's friggin' legs are going to fall off. How many seasons can that runt play before he pops a knee," whined Snider, continuing "if I played in that giant cow pasture Shibe with a bunch of flyball pitchers, I'd have some bloody range factor numbers that'd singe your hair. I could cover ground." Torii Hunter could only shake his head "Taylor Douthit, Chet Lemon, bite me."
Attorneys for the HOF'ers are filing complaints in federal court against the programmers of whatifsports. David Boies, lead counsel, summarizes the situation "There are serious issues with the credibility and playability of this sim. If certain irregularities in the sim engine are not addressed, I am afraid we will never be able to know the true credibility of these league results." All parties hope for a speedy return to something resembling reality, where speedy fielders, cavernous ballparks, and pitchers with statistical "illusions" built into their records do not routinely knock off players with proven, sabremetric value.
Attorneys for whatifsports could not be reached for comment.
4/18/2006 12:20 PM
You forgot to bold Al Orth. Legendary twirler he was.
4/18/2006 12:20 PM
...i think the standard game should start in 1921 with prior seasons being available for theme leagues...
...defensive effects (actually just range) have way too powerful an effect...
4/18/2006 12:21 PM
"Torii Hunter could only shake his head "Taylor Douthit, Chet Lemon, bite me.""
...torii is my kinda guy!!
4/18/2006 12:22 PM
73 METS ROCKED!
4/18/2006 12:28 PM

Al Orth

Nickname(s): The Curveless Wonder
1872-1948
RHP-OF 1895-09 Phillies , Senators, Yankees
Led League in w 06
Led League in era 1899


A durable hurler, Orth won 202 games without ever throwing a curve. Instead, The Curveless Wonder changed speeds masterfully on his fastball. For the 1899 Phillies, he led the National League with a 2.49 ERA. His control was among the best; he walked 19 in 145 innings that season, and with the 1902 Senators allowed just 40 walks in 324 innings. He fell to 10-22 in 1903, and in 1904 was traded to the New York Highlanders. There he picked up the spitball from Jack Chesbro, and in 1906 he led the AL with 27 wins, 36 complete games, and 339 innings pitched. In 1907 he lost a league-high 21 games. A fine hitter, he ranks seventh all-time among pitchers with 389 career hits. He sometimes played in the field and was used 78 times as a pinch hitter. (JCA)

4/18/2006 12:30 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By johnpaul0 on 4/18/2006
Defense seems to matter way, way too much in this sim, to my admittedly less experienced eye.
I'm not going to argue with the Bill James thing or the pre-1920 thing, they're whole 'nother subjects.

But the current sim is so much better than the previous versions, that the only place to find "hidden value" is in extreme fielding players, and players who walk too much. They still have underpriced low HR/9 for pitchers, but that's not obvious since nearly all owners use low HR/9 pitchers...

If you have been here for a long time (and obviously, this id is SOMEONE's alias), you'd realize how much better the current sim is than previous versions. In a theme, if you can eliminate pre-1901 players and a+ range players, you have a very good simulation that many different strategies can win. That just has never been true before.

4/18/2006 12:33 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By biglenr on 4/18/2006
Quote: Originally Posted By johnpaul0 on 4/18/2006

Defense seems to matter way, way too much in this sim, to my admittedly less experienced eye.
I'm not going to argue with the Bill James thing or the pre-1920 thing, they're whole 'nother subjects.

But the current sim is so much better than the previous versions, that the only place to find "hidden value" is in extreme fielding players, and players who walk too much. They still have underpriced low HR/9 for pitchers, but that's not obvious since nearly all owners use low HR/9 pitchers...

If you have been here for a long time (and obviously, this id is SOMEONE's alias), you'd realize how much better the current sim is than previous versions. In a theme, if you can eliminate pre-1901 players and a+ range players, you have a very good simulation that many different strategies can win. That just has never been true before.



...the fact that the "problems" we talk about now are the worst problems says a lot about how far the game has come...
4/18/2006 12:36 PM
Thanks, that was the point I was trying to make.
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